why convert -- was RE: article comment

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why convert -- was RE: article comment

measel
I can tell you how to avoid that problem....quit typing things.  NetRexx is all about Not typing things.

And this whole "convert java to NetRexx" idea is bogus in my opinion.  Why in the hell would you re-write perfectly good code just so it's in NetRexx ?  Instead, show people how easy it is to leverage existing java libraries with no work.

And as long as I'm being all Thomasy this morning, how about some additional verbs ?  Say and Ask need friends.

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Marc Remes
Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2012 5:44 AM
To: IBM Netrexx
Subject: Re: [Ibm-netrexx] article comment

On 06/28/2012 11:28 AM, René Jansen wrote:
> Yes I thought so.
>
> We should enumerate and prioritize the current java practices that NetRexx needs.
>
> René.
>

generic types should be rather high on that list. Java code is full of it nowadays. And I still have not found a way to
translate it conveniently to NetRexx..

Marc

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Re: why convert -- was RE: article comment

rvjansen
>
> And as long as I'm being all Thomasy this morning, how about some
> additional verbs ?  Say and Ask need friends.
>

Ha, you put me laugh - like we say in the Caribbean.

Please state which verbs.

Also, about not typing things - it will lead to more runtime errors,
but I think you know that. NetRexx is great in that it gives you the
option of typing less without being typeless (or use more typing without
wasting more typing).

Sometimes I do translate a working piece of Java just to be able to do
quicker maintenance on it, or to have a better look at what it does, or
being able to explain it on one slide in a presentation. It seems most
useful for learners who come from Java, but we must be realistic in
acknowledging that most people who know it, will like it for that reason
- it works and they are used to it. Sometimes I think you must come from
the pre-C like syntax to like Rexx, e.g. must have been exposed to
Cobol, PL/1, Clist, Basic or Rexx. I must say I do not dislike Java,
Javascript, C and C++ syntax, but I find the repetition in specifying
types a bit tedious and find Rexx more readable after all.

I am awaiting the doc changes to support the requests for new verbs and
syntax - to be discussed on this, or the developers list.

best regards,

René.

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Re: why convert -- was RE: article comment

ThSITC
In my TRIAL implementation, those additional Verbs are:

REPORT report-name

TITLE
FOOTING

PRINT comma-separated list [BY sort-keys] [TO desttination-file]

Also, additional ATTRIBUTES in the PROPERTIES Section, e.g.:

myvar= Rexx '', HEAD='this is my heading', PICTURE='---9.99',
ZERO='mynullvalue', LABEL='my Label for Screens'

This was and is greatly influenced by GEISCO's  former DMS Language (a
fourth Generation Language),
which did generato Fortran 77 Programs, and my EURO_LOGOS (same as an
Interpreter) and EURO:LOGIC,
my own Programming Language created back in the 1970's on GEISCO's then
famous Mark III Service,
which has been a commercial derivate of the then known MULTICS Time
Sharing Concept ;-)

DISPLAY comma-separated-item list [BY SORT-Keys] [TO Screen]
ACCEPT comma-separated-Item-list [FROM SCREEN]

SHOW comma-separated item-list

Run-Time routines are already in
org.netrexx.thsitc.runtime.compatibilty, as fars as I do remember ;-)

Still working on the USER's Guide, however.

Sincerely,

Thomas Schneider, from hot Vienna, those days (Austria, Europe, NO
Kangoroohs, I'm sooo sorry ;-)
==============================================================================
Am 28.06.2012 13:26, schrieb rvjansen:

>>
>> And as long as I'm being all Thomasy this morning, how about some
>> additional verbs ?  Say and Ask need friends.
>>
>
> Ha, you put me laugh - like we say in the Caribbean.
>
> Please state which verbs.
>
> Also, about not typing things - it will lead to more runtime errors,
> but I think you know that. NetRexx is great in that it gives you the
> option of typing less without being typeless (or use more typing
> without wasting more typing).
>
> Sometimes I do translate a working piece of Java just to be able to do
> quicker maintenance on it, or to have a better look at what it does,
> or being able to explain it on one slide in a presentation. It seems
> most useful for learners who come from Java, but we must be realistic
> in acknowledging that most people who know it, will like it for that
> reason - it works and they are used to it. Sometimes I think you must
> come from the pre-C like syntax to like Rexx, e.g. must have been
> exposed to Cobol, PL/1, Clist, Basic or Rexx. I must say I do not
> dislike Java, Javascript, C and C++ syntax, but I find the repetition
> in specifying types a bit tedious and find Rexx more readable after all.
>
> I am awaiting the doc changes to support the requests for new verbs
> and syntax - to be discussed on this, or the developers list.
>
> best regards,
>
> René.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ibm-netrexx mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Online Archive : http://ibm-netrexx.215625.n3.nabble.com/
>


--
Thomas Schneider (Founder of www.thsitc.com) Member of the Rexx Languge
Asscociation (www.rexxla.org) Member of the NetRexx Developer's Team
(www.netrexx.org)

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Thomas Schneider, Vienna, Austria (Europe) :-)

www.thsitc.com
www.db-123.com
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Re: why convert -- was RE: article comment

Michael Dag
In reply to this post by measel
Most Java libraries (I deal with WebSphere MQ, XML and stuff...) out there
is with Java samples.
I have not and won't learn Java... but would like to use Java libraries to
do NetRexx programming.
So I need to convert Java to NetRexx to write what I want to write...

I guess what is missing for me is a good IDE with function help, I write
(simple) VB and .NET code
all the time without really knowing (well by now I do...) what I am
doing..., but I see on the screen
what options functions are available and can see what values are assigned...


Maybe that's what's lacking for me right now... a good NetRexx IDE where I
can simply click on a jar
and use what is inside... :-) With new Java libraries often I simply don't
know where to start... :-(

Michael

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Measel, Mike
Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2012 13:00
To: IBM Netrexx
Subject: [Ibm-netrexx] why convert -- was RE: article comment

I can tell you how to avoid that problem....quit typing things.  NetRexx is
all about Not typing things.

And this whole "convert java to NetRexx" idea is bogus in my opinion.  Why
in the hell would you re-write perfectly good code just so it's in NetRexx ?
Instead, show people how easy it is to leverage existing java libraries with
no work.

And as long as I'm being all Thomasy this morning, how about some additional
verbs ?  Say and Ask need friends.

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Marc Remes
Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2012 5:44 AM
To: IBM Netrexx
Subject: Re: [Ibm-netrexx] article comment

On 06/28/2012 11:28 AM, René Jansen wrote:
> Yes I thought so.
>
> We should enumerate and prioritize the current java practices that NetRexx
needs.
>
> René.
>

generic types should be rather high on that list. Java code is full of it
nowadays. And I still have not found a way to translate it conveniently to
NetRexx..

Marc

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Re: why convert -- was RE: article comment

Bill Fenlason
Michael,

Possibly you mean "simple IDE" rather than "good IDE"?

Some people would not exclude Eclipse from a list of "good IDE's" :)

Bill

On 6/28/2012 11:14 AM, Michael Dag wrote:

> Most Java libraries (I deal with WebSphere MQ, XML and stuff...) out there
>
> is with Java samples.
> I have not and won't learn Java... but would like to use Java libraries to
>
> do NetRexx programming.
> So I need to convert Java to NetRexx to write what I want to write...
>
> I guess what is missing for me is a good IDE with function help, I write
> (simple) VB and .NET code
> all the time without really knowing (well by now I do...) what I am
> doing..., but I see on the screen
> what options functions are available and can see what values are assigned...
>
>
> Maybe that's what's lacking for me right now... a good NetRexx IDE where I
>
> can simply click on a jar
> and use what is inside... :-) With new Java libraries often I simply don't
>
> know where to start... :-(
>
> Michael
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email]
> [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Measel, Mike
>
> Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2012 13:00
> To: IBM Netrexx
> Subject: [Ibm-netrexx] why convert -- was RE: article comment
>
> I can tell you how to avoid that problem....quit typing things.  NetRexx is
> all about Not typing things.
>
> And this whole "convert java to NetRexx" idea is bogus in my opinion.  Why
>
> in the hell would you re-write perfectly good code just so it's in NetRexx ?
> Instead, show people how easy it is to leverage existing java libraries with
> no work.
>
> And as long as I'm being all Thomasy this morning, how about some additional
> verbs ?  Say and Ask need friends.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email]
> [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Marc Remes
> Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2012 5:44 AM
> To: IBM Netrexx
> Subject: Re: [Ibm-netrexx] article comment
>
> On 06/28/2012 11:28 AM, René Jansen wrote:
>> Yes I thought so.
>>
>> We should enumerate and prioritize the current java practices that NetRexx
> needs.
>> René.
>>
> generic types should be rather high on that list. Java code is full of it
> nowadays. And I still have not found a way to translate it conveniently to
>
> NetRexx..
>
> Marc
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ibm-netrexx mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Online Archive : http://ibm-netrexx.215625.n3.nabble.com/
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ibm-netrexx mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Online Archive : http://ibm-netrexx.215625.n3.nabble.com/
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ibm-netrexx mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Online Archive : http://ibm-netrexx.215625.n3.nabble.com/
>
>
>
> -----
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 2012.0.2180 / Virus Database: 2437/5098 - Release Date: 06/28/12
>
>
>


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Re: why convert -- was RE: article comment

Michael Dag
Well... I am the type of guy that finds things by stumbling over them...

Apparently in VB6 Classic and Visual Studio I clicked things and something
worked...
which lead me along to wonderful other things...

For some reason... clicking stuff in Eclipse has not lead me anywhere
sofar...
so sticking with UltraEdit and playing blindman... :-(

So Good implies Simple for me... :-)

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Bill Fenlason
Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2012 17:23
To: IBM Netrexx
Subject: Re: [Ibm-netrexx] why convert -- was RE: article comment

Michael,

Possibly you mean "simple IDE" rather than "good IDE"?

Some people would not exclude Eclipse from a list of "good IDE's" :)

Bill

On 6/28/2012 11:14 AM, Michael Dag wrote:

> Most Java libraries (I deal with WebSphere MQ, XML and stuff...) out
> there
>
> is with Java samples.
> I have not and won't learn Java... but would like to use Java
> libraries to
>
> do NetRexx programming.
> So I need to convert Java to NetRexx to write what I want to write...
>
> I guess what is missing for me is a good IDE with function help, I
> write
> (simple) VB and .NET code
> all the time without really knowing (well by now I do...) what I am
> doing..., but I see on the screen what options functions are available
> and can see what values are assigned...
>
>
> Maybe that's what's lacking for me right now... a good NetRexx IDE
> where I
>
> can simply click on a jar
> and use what is inside... :-) With new Java libraries often I simply
> don't
>
> know where to start... :-(
>
> Michael
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email]
> [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Measel, Mike
>
> Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2012 13:00
> To: IBM Netrexx
> Subject: [Ibm-netrexx] why convert -- was RE: article comment
>
> I can tell you how to avoid that problem....quit typing things.  
> NetRexx is all about Not typing things.
>
> And this whole "convert java to NetRexx" idea is bogus in my opinion.  
> Why
>
> in the hell would you re-write perfectly good code just so it's in NetRexx
?

> Instead, show people how easy it is to leverage existing java
> libraries with no work.
>
> And as long as I'm being all Thomasy this morning, how about some
> additional verbs ?  Say and Ask need friends.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email]
> [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Marc Remes
> Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2012 5:44 AM
> To: IBM Netrexx
> Subject: Re: [Ibm-netrexx] article comment
>
> On 06/28/2012 11:28 AM, René Jansen wrote:
>> Yes I thought so.
>>
>> We should enumerate and prioritize the current java practices that
>> NetRexx
> needs.
>> René.
>>
> generic types should be rather high on that list. Java code is full of
> it nowadays. And I still have not found a way to translate it
> conveniently to
>
> NetRexx..
>
> Marc
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ibm-netrexx mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Online Archive : http://ibm-netrexx.215625.n3.nabble.com/
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ibm-netrexx mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Online Archive : http://ibm-netrexx.215625.n3.nabble.com/
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ibm-netrexx mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Online Archive : http://ibm-netrexx.215625.n3.nabble.com/
>
>
>
> -----
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 2012.0.2180 / Virus Database: 2437/5098 - Release Date:
> 06/28/12
>
>
>


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Re: why convert -- was RE: article comment

Bill Fenlason
I'm sorry that you have had problems with Eclipse - the project
orientation has both advantages and disadvantages.  I think it is great
once you understand and get used to it, but there is definitely a
learning curve.

I tried to make the NetRexx plugin as easy as possible to use, but it
would appear that there is limited overlap between NetRexx users and
Eclipse users.

On 6/28/2012 11:45 AM, Michael Dag wrote:

> Well... I am the type of guy that finds things by stumbling over them...
>
> Apparently in VB6 Classic and Visual Studio I clicked things and something
>
> worked...
> which lead me along to wonderful other things...
>
> For some reason... clicking stuff in Eclipse has not lead me anywhere
> sofar...
> so sticking with UltraEdit and playing blindman... :-(
>
> So Good implies Simple for me... :-)
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email]
> [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Bill Fenlason
> Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2012 17:23
> To: IBM Netrexx
> Subject: Re: [Ibm-netrexx] why convert -- was RE: article comment
>
> Michael,
>
> Possibly you mean "simple IDE" rather than "good IDE"?
>
> Some people would not exclude Eclipse from a list of "good IDE's" :)
>
> Bill
>
> On 6/28/2012 11:14 AM, Michael Dag wrote:
>> Most Java libraries (I deal with WebSphere MQ, XML and stuff...) out
>> there
>>
>> is with Java samples.
>> I have not and won't learn Java... but would like to use Java
>> libraries to
>>
>> do NetRexx programming.
>> So I need to convert Java to NetRexx to write what I want to write...
>>
>> I guess what is missing for me is a good IDE with function help, I
>> write
>> (simple) VB and .NET code
>> all the time without really knowing (well by now I do...) what I am
>> doing..., but I see on the screen what options functions are available
>> and can see what values are assigned...
>>
>>
>> Maybe that's what's lacking for me right now... a good NetRexx IDE
>> where I
>>
>> can simply click on a jar
>> and use what is inside... :-) With new Java libraries often I simply
>> don't
>>
>> know where to start... :-(
>>
>> Michael
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: [hidden email]
>> [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Measel, Mike
>>
>> Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2012 13:00
>> To: IBM Netrexx
>> Subject: [Ibm-netrexx] why convert -- was RE: article comment
>>
>> I can tell you how to avoid that problem....quit typing things.
>> NetRexx is all about Not typing things.
>>
>> And this whole "convert java to NetRexx" idea is bogus in my opinion.
>> Why
>>
>> in the hell would you re-write perfectly good code just so it's in NetRexx
> ?
>> Instead, show people how easy it is to leverage existing java
>> libraries with no work.
>>
>> And as long as I'm being all Thomasy this morning, how about some
>> additional verbs ?  Say and Ask need friends.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: [hidden email]
>> [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Marc Remes
>> Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2012 5:44 AM
>> To: IBM Netrexx
>> Subject: Re: [Ibm-netrexx] article comment
>>
>> On 06/28/2012 11:28 AM, René Jansen wrote:
>>> Yes I thought so.
>>>
>>> We should enumerate and prioritize the current java practices that
>>> NetRexx
>> needs.
>>> René.
>>>
>> generic types should be rather high on that list. Java code is full of
>> it nowadays. And I still have not found a way to translate it
>> conveniently to
>>
>> NetRexx..
>>
>> Marc
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Ibm-netrexx mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> Online Archive : http://ibm-netrexx.215625.n3.nabble.com/
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Ibm-netrexx mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> Online Archive : http://ibm-netrexx.215625.n3.nabble.com/
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Ibm-netrexx mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> Online Archive : http://ibm-netrexx.215625.n3.nabble.com/
>>
>>
>>
>> -----
>> No virus found in this message.
>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>> Version: 2012.0.2180 / Virus Database: 2437/5098 - Release Date:
>> 06/28/12
>>
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ibm-netrexx mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Online Archive : http://ibm-netrexx.215625.n3.nabble.com/
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ibm-netrexx mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Online Archive : http://ibm-netrexx.215625.n3.nabble.com/
>
>
>
> -----
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 2012.0.2180 / Virus Database: 2437/5098 - Release Date: 06/28/12
>
>
>


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Re: why convert -- was RE: article comment

ThSITC
In reply to this post by Michael Dag
Hi Michael,
    does *this Your Message* -- below --

do mean that you *do KNOW* VISUAL BASIC (VB) quite well???

Thomas.

PS: did lern BASIC back in 1964 as my thirdComputer Language (after RPG
and PL/I),
as it has been used at those times as the major Language of *HoneyWell
BULL*'s
Mark I service ...

.. which became GEISCO's Mark II afterwards...

Oh, my dear ibm-netrexx followers, maybe I'm simply tooo oooold ;-)
===========================================================,
==========================================================
m 28.06.2012 17:14, schrieb Michael Dag:

> Most Java libraries (I deal with WebSphere MQ, XML and stuff...) out there
> is with Java samples.
> I have not and won't learn Java... but would like to use Java libraries to
> do NetRexx programming.
> So I need to convert Java to NetRexx to write what I want to write...
>
> I guess what is missing for me is a good IDE with function help, I write
> (simple) VB and .NET code
> all the time without really knowing (well by now I do...) what I am
> doing..., but I see on the screen
> what options functions are available and can see what values are assigned...
>
>
> Maybe that's what's lacking for me right now... a good NetRexx IDE where I
> can simply click on a jar
> and use what is inside... :-) With new Java libraries often I simply don't
> know where to start... :-(
>
> Michael
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email]
> [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Measel, Mike
> Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2012 13:00
> To: IBM Netrexx
> Subject: [Ibm-netrexx] why convert -- was RE: article comment
>
> I can tell you how to avoid that problem....quit typing things.  NetRexx is
> all about Not typing things.
>
> And this whole "convert java to NetRexx" idea is bogus in my opinion.  Why
> in the hell would you re-write perfectly good code just so it's in NetRexx ?
> Instead, show people how easy it is to leverage existing java libraries with
> no work.
>
> And as long as I'm being all Thomasy this morning, how about some additional
> verbs ?  Say and Ask need friends.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email]
> [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Marc Remes
> Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2012 5:44 AM
> To: IBM Netrexx
> Subject: Re: [Ibm-netrexx] article comment
>
> On 06/28/2012 11:28 AM, René Jansen wrote:
>> Yes I thought so.
>>
>> We should enumerate and prioritize the current java practices that NetRexx
> needs.
>> René.
>>
> generic types should be rather high on that list. Java code is full of it
> nowadays. And I still have not found a way to translate it conveniently to
> NetRexx..
>
> Marc
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ibm-netrexx mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Online Archive : http://ibm-netrexx.215625.n3.nabble.com/
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ibm-netrexx mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Online Archive : http://ibm-netrexx.215625.n3.nabble.com/
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ibm-netrexx mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Online Archive : http://ibm-netrexx.215625.n3.nabble.com/
>
>


--
Thomas Schneider (Founder of www.thsitc.com) Member of the Rexx Languge
Asscociation (www.rexxla.org) Member of the NetRexx Developer's Team
(www.netrexx.org)

_______________________________________________
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Thomas Schneider, Vienna, Austria (Europe) :-)

www.thsitc.com
www.db-123.com