Upcoming release 4.01 of NetRexx

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Upcoming release 4.01 of NetRexx

rvjansen
I did answer but perhaps it did no go out out due to some mail settings bugs in El Capitan that I installed around that date or due to me using another email address because of those.

There is no reason to panic over any of this. The Kenai release dates are always set as an intention and invariably slip months at a time. As soon as somebody starts paying for releases that might change.

The situation of NetRexx did not change a lot; I might point out that after the 2011 Open Source release there was much more activity than in the decade before it; it is much less dead than, say, in 2005.

In my opinion it is rather unusual to declare something dead on its own public mailing list, especially if that something is a thing we worked rather hard on for lthe last few years. On this other hand, I see it is in reaction to a mail from Thomas, who seems to have this special ability to elicit strong reactions.

And yes, you are all right. But it does not matter because in this case (I cannot vouch for other instances) there is a rich afterlife. Of course we would benefit by running on more VM infrastructure than JVM alone - but someone with time on their hands should report on using some llvm tooling like RoboVM and translate classes to JavaScript.

An interesting option would be WebASM - surely the wave of the future for the browser and JS platforms. Again, here is Kermit right in the sense that because the compiler is no straight lexer/parser AST to backend generator, some time needs to be invested. While the ooRexx list discusses an upcoming .net implementation, Jason Martin already made one for us; this was mentioned a couple of times but I did not yet see someone who needed this come forward.

I am less sure about the tool support and what it would bring us. We had excellent Eclipse support (well it still is there but stable) but I really did not see a huge uptake of NetRexx stemming from it. It is nice to use and I probably would use it myself if my development was limited to one app on one platform; but as I did most work on either z/OS or raspberry lately, there would be a limited payoff compared to the command line (-exec is excellent by the way) approach that I favour. Around 2000-2002 I used NetBeans for a long time as NetRexx dev environment, but then NetNBeans changed and all of a sudden wanted to use ant/maven conventions etc; even automatically deleting NetRexx sources when builds failed at some time. I heard it is better now but I do not have the time either.

Selling NetRexx to Java programmers is hard; I have most success with people who had some Java course years ago but dread the ceremony needed for every program - they tend to see NetRexx for what it is. Programmers who have Java in their dat to day grind much less so.

The ADDRESS facility was proposed and discussed on the list some years ago. There were, as I remember it, not many reactions (I remember Chip telling me to go ahead)  but I needed it myself in my last job so in any case the runtime implementation already (but not the language support) went in. Indeed I forgot to enter an issue in JIRA.

For the next release, annotations need to be available and relaxing of the Rexx-String issue would be other candidates, the latter (in combination with ADDRESS) being the reason for the major version bump.

best regards,

René.




Begin forwarded message:

From: René Jansen <[hidden email]>
Date: 9 oktober 2015 09:00:37 GMT-4
To: IBM Netrexx <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [Ibm-netrexx] Will Netrexx vs. 4.00 (scheduled for Nov. 2, 2015) support *annotations* ?

I would like to think it does. 
The things you mention are open for discussion. I have a hard time imagining what Rexxlike annotation would look like.

At the same time, do not take the November 2 release date too literally. It will move.

best regards,

René.

On 7 okt. 2015, at 05:48, Thomas Schneider <[hidden email]> wrote:

It's quite quiet on this list ....

I need to know whether NetRexx vs. 4.00 will support Java-like annotations.
When Yes, which syntacs and semantics.

Kindly,
Thomas Schneider.

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Ibm-netrexx mailing list
[hidden email]
Online Archive : http://ibm-netrexx.215625.n3.nabble.com/



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Re: Upcoming release 4.01 of NetRexx

Dave Woodman

René wrote: “For the next release, annotations need to be available and relaxing of the Rexx-String issue would be other candidates, the latter (in combination with ADDRESS) being the reason for the major version bump.”

 

Please add enums to this. Sugar such as generics and the like I can live without, but the two things that are preventing me using NetRexx in the real world are enums and annotations!

 

I can even work around the lack of annotations (embed them in comments, generate Java, post process and compile) while still working in NetRexx, but I have to drop into Java to do enums. Once you have to drop to Java then the hoops required to flip back and forth mean there is a tendency to stay there, and I don’t want to…

 

Cheers,

 

            Dave.


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Re: Upcoming release 4.01 of NetRexx

Kermit Kiser
In reply to this post by rvjansen
I apologize if I upset anyone - that was not my intention. Rather I was attempting to apply a little "shock therapy" to NetRexx to promote thinking outside of the box that we find ourselves in.

I am concerned that NetRexx will die with us if there is not some sort of significant change in focus and goals that goes beyond just playing catchup with new Java features. Is it web apps? Educating fledgling programmers? Game development? Automotive applications? Drone controllers? Home automation? AI? VR? Robots? Something yet unconceived?

My thanks to all who participated in this discussion!

-- Kermit

On 2015-10-18 12:46 PM, René Jansen wrote:
I did answer but perhaps it did no go out out due to some mail settings bugs in El Capitan that I installed around that date or due to me using another email address because of those.

There is no reason to panic over any of this. The Kenai release dates are always set as an intention and invariably slip months at a time. As soon as somebody starts paying for releases that might change.

The situation of NetRexx did not change a lot; I might point out that after the 2011 Open Source release there was much more activity than in the decade before it; it is much less dead than, say, in 2005.

In my opinion it is rather unusual to declare something dead on its own public mailing list, especially if that something is a thing we worked rather hard on for lthe last few years. On this other hand, I see it is in reaction to a mail from Thomas, who seems to have this special ability to elicit strong reactions.

And yes, you are all right. But it does not matter because in this case (I cannot vouch for other instances) there is a rich afterlife. Of course we would benefit by running on more VM infrastructure than JVM alone - but someone with time on their hands should report on using some llvm tooling like RoboVM and translate classes to JavaScript.

An interesting option would be WebASM - surely the wave of the future for the browser and JS platforms. Again, here is Kermit right in the sense that because the compiler is no straight lexer/parser AST to backend generator, some time needs to be invested. While the ooRexx list discusses an upcoming .net implementation, Jason Martin already made one for us; this was mentioned a couple of times but I did not yet see someone who needed this come forward.

I am less sure about the tool support and what it would bring us. We had excellent Eclipse support (well it still is there but stable) but I really did not see a huge uptake of NetRexx stemming from it. It is nice to use and I probably would use it myself if my development was limited to one app on one platform; but as I did most work on either z/OS or raspberry lately, there would be a limited payoff compared to the command line (-exec is excellent by the way) approach that I favour. Around 2000-2002 I used NetBeans for a long time as NetRexx dev environment, but then NetNBeans changed and all of a sudden wanted to use ant/maven conventions etc; even automatically deleting NetRexx sources when builds failed at some time. I heard it is better now but I do not have the time either.

Selling NetRexx to Java programmers is hard; I have most success with people who had some Java course years ago but dread the ceremony needed for every program - they tend to see NetRexx for what it is. Programmers who have Java in their dat to day grind much less so.

The ADDRESS facility was proposed and discussed on the list some years ago. There were, as I remember it, not many reactions (I remember Chip telling me to go ahead)  but I needed it myself in my last job so in any case the runtime implementation already (but not the language support) went in. Indeed I forgot to enter an issue in JIRA.

For the next release, annotations need to be available and relaxing of the Rexx-String issue would be other candidates, the latter (in combination with ADDRESS) being the reason for the major version bump.

best regards,

René.




Begin forwarded message:

From: René Jansen <[hidden email]>
Date: 9 oktober 2015 09:00:37 GMT-4
To: IBM Netrexx <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [Ibm-netrexx] Will Netrexx vs. 4.00 (scheduled for Nov. 2, 2015) support *annotations* ?

I would like to think it does. 
The things you mention are open for discussion. I have a hard time imagining what Rexxlike annotation would look like.

At the same time, do not take the November 2 release date too literally. It will move.

best regards,

René.

On 7 okt. 2015, at 05:48, Thomas Schneider <[hidden email]> wrote:

It's quite quiet on this list ....

I need to know whether NetRexx vs. 4.00 will support Java-like annotations.
When Yes, which syntacs and semantics.

Kindly,
Thomas Schneider.

_______________________________________________
Ibm-netrexx mailing list
[hidden email]
Online Archive : http://ibm-netrexx.215625.n3.nabble.com/




_______________________________________________
Ibm-netrexx mailing list
[hidden email]
Online Archive : http://ibm-netrexx.215625.n3.nabble.com/



_______________________________________________
Ibm-netrexx mailing list
[hidden email]
Online Archive : http://ibm-netrexx.215625.n3.nabble.com/

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