Error: Unable to access jarfile NetRexxF.jar

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Re: Error: Unable to access jarfile NetRexxF.jar

Dave Woodman

Hi,

 

To address the older things first the helpfile was corrupt (don’t ask me, I don’t know!). Select is shift +left mouse button.

 

New version here:- https://bogon.co.uk/owncloud/public.php?service=files&t=cc49d6957b262cbf93d0618ef7326125

 

The reboot may have been needed since you may have ran the bat from explorer – it would have inherited the environment from there. Logging out and in again may well have achieved the same thing.

 

The only material difference seems to be java 8 (I am stuck with 7 for now, for work reasons). Even so, java is on your path, and thus I don’t know why it does not find it.

 

Just on the off-chance, could you edit the bat and change

 

        set PATH=%NRBIN%;%EDITORDIR%;%CONSOLEDIR%;%PATH%

to

        set PATH=%PATH%;%NRBIN%;%EDITORDIR%;%CONSOLEDIR%

 

Just to see what happens?

 

                                   Dave.

 

 

 




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Re: Error: Unable to access jarfile NetRexxF.jar

Dave Woodman
In reply to this post by Jeff Hennick

Problem solved.

 

It’s that nice ( L ) enhanced console, which is 32 bit. So, if one does not have 32 bit java installed then you are out of luck.

 

To resolve, in the short term, change the “start Console” to “start cmd” in the setup.bat. I’ll rebuild with no console and upload later today (and post a link, of course).

 

                Dave.

 

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Dave Woodman
Sent: 30 May 2014 17:05
To: 'IBM Netrexx'
Subject: Re: [Ibm-netrexx] Error: Unable to access jarfile NetRexxF.jar

 

Hi,

 

To address the older things first the helpfile was corrupt (don’t ask me, I don’t know!). Select is shift +left mouse button.

 

New version here:- https://bogon.co.uk/owncloud/public.php?service=files&t=cc49d6957b262cbf93d0618ef7326125

 

The reboot may have been needed since you may have ran the bat from explorer – it would have inherited the environment from there. Logging out and in again may well have achieved the same thing.

 

The only material difference seems to be java 8 (I am stuck with 7 for now, for work reasons). Even so, java is on your path, and thus I don’t know why it does not find it.

 

Just on the off-chance, could you edit the bat and change

 

        set PATH=%NRBIN%;%EDITORDIR%;%CONSOLEDIR%;%PATH%

to

        set PATH=%PATH%;%NRBIN%;%EDITORDIR%;%CONSOLEDIR%

 

Just to see what happens?

 

                                   Dave.

 

 

 

 


This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active.

 




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Re: Error: Unable to access jarfile NetRexxF.jar

Gil Blais

Hi David. Using the cmd vs the console also allows better copy/paste options - good idea.

Gil


On Friday, May 30, 2014 12:37 PM, Dave Woodman [via ibm-netrexx] <[hidden email]> wrote:


Problem solved.
 
It’s that nice ( L ) enhanced console, which is 32 bit. So, if one does not have 32 bit java installed then you are out of luck.
 
To resolve, in the short term, change the “start Console” to “start cmd” in the setup.bat. I’ll rebuild with no console and upload later today (and post a link, of course).
 
                Dave.
 
From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Dave Woodman
Sent: 30 May 2014 17:05
To: 'IBM Netrexx'
Subject: Re: [Ibm-netrexx] Error: Unable to access jarfile NetRexxF.jar
 
Hi,
 
To address the older things first the helpfile was corrupt (don’t ask me, I don’t know!). Select is shift +left mouse button.
 
 
The reboot may have been needed since you may have ran the bat from explorer – it would have inherited the environment from there. Logging out and in again may well have achieved the same thing.
 
The only material difference seems to be java 8 (I am stuck with 7 for now, for work reasons). Even so, java is on your path, and thus I don’t know why it does not find it.
 
Just on the off-chance, could you edit the bat and change
 
        set PATH=%NRBIN%;%EDITORDIR%;%CONSOLEDIR%;%PATH%
to
        set PATH=%PATH%;%NRBIN%;%EDITORDIR%;%CONSOLEDIR%
 
Just to see what happens?
 
                                   Dave.
 
 
 
 

This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active.
 



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Re: Error: Unable to access jarfile NetRexxF.jar

Dave Woodman
In reply to this post by Jeff Hennick

OK, here is the native-console-only version…

 

https://bogon.co.uk/owncloud/public.php?service=files&t=adc69eb3682f3564ce751f3866385990

 

                Dave.

 

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Dave Woodman
Sent: 30 May 2014 17:37
To: 'IBM Netrexx'
Subject: Re: [Ibm-netrexx] Error: Unable to access jarfile NetRexxF.jar

 

Problem solved.

 

It’s that nice ( L ) enhanced console, which is 32 bit. So, if one does not have 32 bit java installed then you are out of luck.

 

To resolve, in the short term, change the “start Console” to “start cmd” in the setup.bat. I’ll rebuild with no console and upload later today (and post a link, of course).

 

                Dave.

 

From: [hidden email] [[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Dave Woodman
Sent: 30 May 2014 17:05
To: 'IBM Netrexx'
Subject: Re: [Ibm-netrexx] Error: Unable to access jarfile NetRexxF.jar

 

Hi,

 

To address the older things first the helpfile was corrupt (don’t ask me, I don’t know!). Select is shift +left mouse button.

 

New version here:- https://bogon.co.uk/owncloud/public.php?service=files&t=cc49d6957b262cbf93d0618ef7326125

 

The reboot may have been needed since you may have ran the bat from explorer – it would have inherited the environment from there. Logging out and in again may well have achieved the same thing.

 

The only material difference seems to be java 8 (I am stuck with 7 for now, for work reasons). Even so, java is on your path, and thus I don’t know why it does not find it.

 

Just on the off-chance, could you edit the bat and change

 

        set PATH=%NRBIN%;%EDITORDIR%;%CONSOLEDIR%;%PATH%

to

        set PATH=%PATH%;%NRBIN%;%EDITORDIR%;%CONSOLEDIR%

 

Just to see what happens?

 

                                   Dave.

 

 

 

 


This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active.

 

 


This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active.

 




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Re: Error: Unable to access jarfile NetRexxF.jar

Kermit Kiser
In reply to this post by Gil Blais
Hi Gil --

I agree that the start-up procedures for NetRexx are still cumbersome
and should be improved. There is an installer for NetRexx 3.02, the
current release version which is supposed to handle most of these issues
I think but I can't find any source or documentation so I am not sure
what it does. I will look into these issues and see if things can be
improved in future releases. Meanwhile here is my admittedly limited
understanding of "how things work" from the top down (I will assume that
you installed the NetRexx zip distribution in Windoze directory
"C:\NetRexx" to simplify things):

1) The "nrc" command is actually file nrc.bat which is just a short
alias that calls the real batch file NetRexxC.bat in the same directory.
These batch command files are in directory C:\NetRexx\bin and that
directory must be added to the Windows PATH in order for Windows to
execute them from arbitrary locations. The batch files call the "java"
command to run the NetRexx translator/compiler and any Java class file
that is produced.

2) NetRexx does not know anything about Windows PATH and must locate all
components from the Java CLASSPATH variable or the "java -cp ..."
classpath that overrides it. That means that NetRexxC.jar must be
specified in the Java classpath in order to run NetRexx, for example:
CLASSPATH=C:\NetRexx\lib\NetRexxC.jar
(substitute NetRexxF.jar if using the ecj compiler from Eclipse)

3) NetRexxC translates NetRexx code to Java code (unless you are only
interpreting the code) and calls the Java compiler to produce Java class
files.

If you are using the Java (JDK/SDK) compiler to produce class files,
NetRexx locates the internal Java API it uses from the CLASSPATH, so the
JDK module "tools.jar" should be added to the Java classpath, for
example: CLASSPATH=C:\NetRexx\lib\NetRexxC.jar;C:\Program
Files\Java\jdk1.8.0\lib\tools.jar

The classpath is not needed if these modules are added to the "ext"
directory for the current JVM you are running, for example:
C:\Program Files\Java\jdk1.8.0\jre\lib\ext

If you are using the Eclipse ecj compiler, you must currently tell
NetRexxC to use it by setting an environment variable: (for example)
netrexx_java=-Dnrx.compile=ecj

or you can directly modify the java command that starts NetRexxC, for
example:
java -Dnrx.compiler=ecj org.netrexx.process.NetRexxC $*

4) You can directly call the NetRexx compiler if using the Eclipse ecj
option, for example:

java -Dnrx.compiler=ecj -jar C:\NetRexx\lib\NetRexxF.jar myprogram

I do not recommend this approach as the operand "-jar" causes Java to
ignore ALL classpath data so that the exact location of the jar file
must be provided and ALL library functions must be included in the
specified jar file in order to be located.

5) When having problems locating Java or NetRexx modules, you should
always run the following Java class and report the output to the list so
that it is evident where those items may be found and why they are not
being found:

https://kenai.com/projects/netrexx-plus/downloads/download/Enviroscan/enviroscan.class

(Download and run from the download directory like this: java enviroscan)
--------------

OK, that dump is getting as long as the manual! But maybe it will help
somewhat.

-- Kermit

On 5/30/2014 4:10 AM, Gil Blais wrote:

> Morning Kermit, Gil here. Referring to your 'Oooops' note on the 27th, these
> are the results:
>
> Directory of C:\NetRexx\lib\src
>
> 05/30/2014  06:41 AM               342 http.nrx
>                 1 File(s)            342 bytes
>
> C:\NetRexx\lib\src>java org.netrexx.process.NetRexxC http
> Error: Could not find or load main class org.netrexx.process.NetRexxC
>
> Directory of C:\NetRexx\lib\src
>
> 05/23/2014  06:11 PM           322,449 NetRexxC.jar
> 05/23/2014  06:11 PM         2,606,594 NetRexxF.jar
>                 2 File(s)      2,929,043 bytes
>                 0 Dir(s)  27,529,076,736 bytes free
> --- cut here ---
> Also, NRC has never run for me yet. I have to compile and run in separate
> steps ??
>
> This start up stuff should not be quite so painful. These are supposed to be
> routine happenings vs semi-rocket science.
>
> Gil
>
>
>
> --
> View this message in context: http://ibm-netrexx.215625.n3.nabble.com/Error-Unable-to-access-jarfile-NetRexxF-jar-tp4027085p4027106.html
> Sent from the ibm-netrexx mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
> _______________________________________________
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>
>
>

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Re: Error: Unable to access jarfile NetRexxF.jar

Aviatrexx
That's an excellent tutorial on "what has to be where", Kermit.  If
indeed your succinct explanation is as long as the manual, I'd submit
that this should be added to the user's guide forthwith!

BTW, I downloaded environscan.class but got an error about VM
initiation so I've got bigger issues than PATH and CLASSPATH... :-/

-Chip-

On 5/30/2014 5:30 PM Kermit Kiser said:

> I agree that the start-up procedures for NetRexx are still cumbersome
> and should be improved. There is an installer for NetRexx 3.02, the
> current release version which is supposed to handle most of these
> issues I think but I can't find any source or documentation so I am
> not sure what it does. I will look into these issues and see if things
> can be improved in future releases. Meanwhile here is my admittedly
> limited understanding of "how things work" from the top down (I will
> assume that you installed the NetRexx zip distribution in Windoze
> directory "C:\NetRexx" to simplify things):
>
> 1) ...
>
> 5) When having problems locating Java or NetRexx modules, you should
> always run the following Java class and report the output to the list
> so that it is evident where those items may be found and why they are
> not being found:
>
> https://kenai.com/projects/netrexx-plus/downloads/download/Enviroscan/enviroscan.class
>
>
> (Download and run from the download directory like this: java enviroscan)
> --------------
>
> OK, that dump is getting as long as the manual! But maybe it will help
> somewhat.

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Re: Error: Unable to access jarfile NetRexxF.jar

Tom Maynard
In reply to this post by Kermit Kiser

On 30-May-14 16:30, Kermit Kiser wrote:
There is an installer for NetRexx 3.02...but I can't find any source or documentation so I am not sure what it does.
Ahem.  The installer is mine, so if you have questions I'm right here.  I made the source available to René back when I first produced it, and now I've had two crashes and a new computer, so it would be a bit of a scrabble to recover it -- I believe I have it on Dropbox, but recreating it would not be troublesome, and needs to be rebuilt for 3.03 anyway.

There never was any documentation because essentially it acts as a self-extracting zip file, and does nothing more than unzip the JAR into either a default, or a directory of the user's choosing.

I think on OS X and Linux systems it also tagged the shell scripts as executable (or I planned to have it do so).

If you think documentation is required I will gladly produce some when I rewrite the v3.03 version.  I would really like to do more than unzip things, but I wonder if Windows Registry jacking is really necessary.

Just let me know what you need.  It's a bit of cake (which are, of course, famous last words).

Tom.

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Re: Error: Unable to access jarfile NetRexxF.jar

Kermit Kiser
Not to read over much into your post but are you OK with us doing something a bit more sophisticated? It seems to me that the one thing absolutely required to eliminate the oft reported problems with finding NetRexx components is to have a reliable pointer to the install location. That probably needs to be an environment variable (perhaps NETREXX_HOME) to be somewhat OS independent. Is that possible? Is there another approach?

As for documentation, if you get hit by the proverbial bus can someone else handle installer setup? ;-)

-- Kermit

On 5/30/2014 9:26 PM, Tom Maynard wrote:

On 30-May-14 16:30, Kermit Kiser wrote:
There is an installer for NetRexx 3.02...but I can't find any source or documentation so I am not sure what it does.
Ahem.  The installer is mine, so if you have questions I'm right here.  I made the source available to René back when I first produced it, and now I've had two crashes and a new computer, so it would be a bit of a scrabble to recover it -- I believe I have it on Dropbox, but recreating it would not be troublesome, and needs to be rebuilt for 3.03 anyway.

There never was any documentation because essentially it acts as a self-extracting zip file, and does nothing more than unzip the JAR into either a default, or a directory of the user's choosing.

I think on OS X and Linux systems it also tagged the shell scripts as executable (or I planned to have it do so).

If you think documentation is required I will gladly produce some when I rewrite the v3.03 version.  I would really like to do more than unzip things, but I wonder if Windows Registry jacking is really necessary.

Just let me know what you need.  It's a bit of cake (which are, of course, famous last words).

Tom.


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Re: Error: Unable to access jarfile NetRexxF.jar

Fernando Cassia-2
In reply to this post by Kermit Kiser
On Tue, May 27, 2014 at 6:37 AM, Kermit Kiser <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Can you explain why you are using " java -jar NetRexxF.jar" rather than the
> normal "java org.NetRexx.process.NetRexxC" to start NetRexx?
>
> -- Kermit

Because java -jar is the only true sane way to invoke Java apps? ;)

Really, calling an app with java -jar appname.jar makes Java use the
default-class attribute in the manifest file, so the user doesn´t have
to know SomeSillyClassName...

The KISS principle, please. ;)

FC
--
During times of Universal Deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act
Durante épocas de Engaño Universal, decir la verdad se convierte en un
Acto Revolucionario
- George Orwell

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Re: Error: Unable to access jarfile NetRexxF.jar

rvjansen
In reply to this post by Kermit Kiser
I am not sure we can make this easier without risking breaking things in some environments.

The instructions in read.me.first are, I think, very clear. I see your argument against '-jar' but the text actually states that it unsets the classpath.

"
The NetRexx package includes the NetRexx translator -- a Java
application which can be used for compiling, interpreting, or
syntax-checking NetRexx programs.  The procedure for installation is
briefly as follows (full details are given in the NetRexx Quick Start Guide):

  1. Ensure that you have Java installed and running.
     Try the command: 'java -version' to confirm this. 
     Download and install Java from www.java.com if it does not work.

  2. Create a file named hello.nrx in the directory that contains NetRexxF.jar,
     containing the line:
say 'hello, netrexx world!'

  3. In this directory, verify the working of the interpreter with:
java -jar NetRexxF.jar -exec hello

  4. Verify that you can create a .class file using the compiler with:
java -Dnrx.compiler=ecj -jar NetRexxF.jar hello

This should create the file hello.class, to be executed with the command:
java -cp NetRexxF.jar:. hello

(on windows, the colon (:) should be a semicolon (;) ).

The -jar directive tells the JVM to ignore the set classpath and to
start a method that is indicated in the jar metadata. This method is,
for the NetRexxF.jar: 

        java org.netrexx.process.NetRexxC

Now that you have seen that it works, you can use this method of
execution. Please take into account that you will have to add additional entries
to the -jar argument for all but the most trivial applications.

The NetRexx Quick Start Guide explains about more flexible ways of installing and 
using NetRexx, using the NetRexxC.jar library added to the CLASSPATH variable, 
and using the script (batch) files that are included in this distribution.
"

When people have install problems, I would first ask if they have followed these instructions, because, if this does not work, there might be other, more difficult problems, like rt.jar or classes.jar not found, or invalid (bitness comes to mind) java installations; trying to solve these in NetRexx would be of no use.

Of course I am open to suggestions for better phrasing of the instructions, but with providing ecj we have done away with the problem of not finding the compiler; not finding the translator is a simpler problem to solve. The user guide is faily elaborate already on the subject of ways to make it work. We can experiment with a NETREXX_HOME variable but I am not sure how this differs from having to set CLASSPATH correctly; the latter is a Java/OS skill that is needed fairly early on when trying to make any kind of application that goes beyond 'hello world', at least for the JVM world. I certainly would not want to depend on an environment variable; it would limit deployment scenarios in J2EE containers and other environments. Classpath is not rocket science, but grasping it is a necessary step to understand how the JVM finds classes.

best regards,

René.

 
On 31 mei 2014, at 12:16, Kermit Kiser <[hidden email]> wrote:

Not to read over much into your post but are you OK with us doing something a bit more sophisticated? It seems to me that the one thing absolutely required to eliminate the oft reported problems with finding NetRexx components is to have a reliable pointer to the install location. That probably needs to be an environment variable (perhaps NETREXX_HOME) to be somewhat OS independent. Is that possible? Is there another approach?

As for documentation, if you get hit by the proverbial bus can someone else handle installer setup? ;-)

-- Kermit

On 5/30/2014 9:26 PM, Tom Maynard wrote:

On 30-May-14 16:30, Kermit Kiser wrote:
There is an installer for NetRexx 3.02...but I can't find any source or documentation so I am not sure what it does.
Ahem.  The installer is mine, so if you have questions I'm right here.  I made the source available to René back when I first produced it, and now I've had two crashes and a new computer, so it would be a bit of a scrabble to recover it -- I believe I have it on Dropbox, but recreating it would not be troublesome, and needs to be rebuilt for 3.03 anyway.

There never was any documentation because essentially it acts as a self-extracting zip file, and does nothing more than unzip the JAR into either a default, or a directory of the user's choosing.

I think on OS X and Linux systems it also tagged the shell scripts as executable (or I planned to have it do so).

If you think documentation is required I will gladly produce some when I rewrite the v3.03 version.  I would really like to do more than unzip things, but I wonder if Windows Registry jacking is really necessary.

Just let me know what you need.  It's a bit of cake (which are, of course, famous last words).

Tom.


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Re: Error: Unable to access jarfile NetRexxF.jar

Tom Maynard
In reply to this post by Kermit Kiser

On 31-May-14 05:16, Kermit Kiser wrote:
are you OK with us doing something a bit more sophisticated?
Within the capability limits of the installer tool of choice, certainly (meaning: I have no objection whatsoever, if it's do-able).  I have not pushed the boundaries of capability of the installer (yet).  And there is a new (beta) version available that is not only (A) totally different, but also (B) rather more capable -- I believe -- than the one I have been using.

an environment variable (perhaps NETREXX_HOME)
Hmmm.  Making this value persistent across reboots -- on Windows, at least -- would definitely require Registry dinking.  I had sought to avoid that level of complication and further, I have absolutely no idea how it's done on Mac ... nor could I test it.  ("Registry dust" also complicates the uninstaller that comes part and parcel with the deal.)

I have Windows & Linux here, period.  My Mac is 1e3 years old, is in a box in storage (somewhere), and would be of no help to me now (it's a Powerbook 500, IIRC).

Is there another approach?
At one time I did have an `nrxSetup.[sh|bat]` file to accompany installation, which would set/adjust paths/classpaths properly to make the various parts the installer laid down available ... but it never attempted to hunt down the JDK pieces, nor did it make any permanent changes to the user space.  Neither did it make any attempt to lodge itself in the user's PATH.

You would simply shell out to a command line, position yourself in NetRexx root, issue the `nrxSetup` command, and get on with your business ... each time.  It would be the user's responsibility to automate the process further, which is fitting and proper, as I see it.

But I feel your pain: René can attest to the tribulations I had getting NetRexx to work (again) on my own system ... and thus was I inspired to write the installer originally.  Necessity being the Mother, after all.

As for documentation, if you get hit by the proverbial bus can someone else handle installer setup? ;-)
Aside from the fact that I habitually avoid bus lanes as a matter of course (although I could easily fall prey to a speeding beer truck :-), anyone with the name of the tool (IzPack) and a modicum of programming experience -- or perhaps better at least a familiarity with markup language (XML, in this case) -- could rebuild the entire thing, from scratch, in an evening or two at the outside.

I had hoped to maintain the image of a "software savior" somewhat longer, but the job doesn't pay very well so I'm disincented to cling to it as "mine."  Anybody could do it.  Really.  Probably better than I have.

And, I did comment the source XML well enough (I thought) that a successor could pick up that ball and run with it.  Of course if the source is lost forever, as I say, it's not catastrophic.  The IzPack doc is clear enough that even I was able to figure it out.  And of course I would have to, since from release to release I manage completely to forget what I did previously.  And each time I did this simply by reading my own comments, which -- each time -- always struck me as surprisingly clear and easy to grasp.  But praising myself is pointless.

Have I answered your questions?  I hope I have, but ask again if I've muffed it up.  At this point in my life I am beyond insult. "Sticks and stones" you know.

Tom.

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Re: Error: Unable to access jarfile NetRexxF.jar

Bill Fenlason
In reply to this post by Gil Blais
I truly do not understand the continued resistance to developing web based,
one click installers for each of the three operating systems.  

If you were a new user, isn't that what you would want?  A simple button
that says "Click here to install NetRexx on Windows"?  (or Mac OS or Linux)

That seems to be the industry standard practice, including for Java itself.

Asking users to take actions out of the ordinary, common, generic
installation process results in discussions like these, or a "why bother?"
reaction.


Original email:
-----------------
From: René Jansen [hidden email]
Date: Sat, 31 May 2014 12:52:15 +0200
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Ibm-netrexx] Error: Unable to access jarfile NetRexxF.jar


I am not sure we can make this easier without risking breaking things in
some environments.

The instructions in read.me.first are, I think, very clear. I see your
argument against '-jar' but the text actually states that it unsets the
classpath.

"
The NetRexx package includes the NetRexx translator -- a Java
application which can be used for compiling, interpreting, or
syntax-checking NetRexx programs.  The procedure for installation is
briefly as follows (full details are given in the NetRexx Quick Start
Guide):

  1. Ensure that you have Java installed and running.
     Try the command: 'java -version' to confirm this.
     Download and install Java from www.java.com if it does not work.

  2. Create a file named hello.nrx in the directory that contains
NetRexxF.jar,
     containing the line:
        say 'hello, netrexx world!'

  3. In this directory, verify the working of the interpreter with:
        java -jar NetRexxF.jar -exec hello

  4. Verify that you can create a .class file using the compiler with:
        java -Dnrx.compiler=ecj -jar NetRexxF.jar hello

This should create the file hello.class, to be executed with the command:
        java -cp NetRexxF.jar:. hello

(on windows, the colon (:) should be a semicolon (;) ).

The -jar directive tells the JVM to ignore the set classpath and to
start a method that is indicated in the jar metadata. This method is,
for the NetRexxF.jar:

        java org.netrexx.process.NetRexxC

Now that you have seen that it works, you can use this method of
execution. Please take into account that you will have to add additional
entries
to the -jar argument for all but the most trivial applications.

The NetRexx Quick Start Guide explains about more flexible ways of
installing and
using NetRexx, using the NetRexxC.jar library added to the CLASSPATH
variable,
and using the script (batch) files that are included in this distribution.
"

When people have install problems, I would first ask if they have followed
these instructions, because, if this does not work, there might be other,
more difficult problems, like rt.jar or classes.jar not found, or invalid
(bitness comes to mind) java installations; trying to solve these in
NetRexx would be of no use.

Of course I am open to suggestions for better phrasing of the instructions,
but with providing ecj we have done away with the problem of not finding
the compiler; not finding the translator is a simpler problem to solve. The
user guide is faily elaborate already on the subject of ways to make it
work. We can experiment with a NETREXX_HOME variable but I am not sure how
this differs from having to set CLASSPATH correctly; the latter is a
Java/OS skill that is needed fairly early on when trying to make any kind
of application that goes beyond 'hello world', at least for the JVM world.
I certainly would not want to depend on an environment variable; it would
limit deployment scenarios in J2EE containers and other environments.
Classpath is not rocket science, but grasping it is a necessary step to
understand how the JVM finds classes.

best regards,

René.

 
On 31 mei 2014, at 12:16, Kermit Kiser <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Not to read over much into your post but are you OK with us doing
something a bit more sophisticated? It seems to me that the one thing
absolutely required to eliminate the oft reported problems with finding
NetRexx components is to have a reliable pointer to the install location.
That probably needs to be an environment variable (perhaps NETREXX_HOME) to
be somewhat OS independent. Is that possible? Is there another approach?
>
> As for documentation, if you get hit by the proverbial bus can someone
else handle installer setup? ;-)
>
> -- Kermit
>
> On 5/30/2014 9:26 PM, Tom Maynard wrote:
>>
>> On 30-May-14 16:30, Kermit Kiser wrote:
>>> There is an installer for NetRexx 3.02...but I can't find any source or
documentation so I am not sure what it does.
>> Ahem.  The installer is mine, so if you have questions I'm right here.
I made the source available to René back when I first produced it, and now
I've had two crashes and a new computer, so it would be a bit of a scrabble
to recover it -- I believe I have it on Dropbox, but recreating it would
not be troublesome, and needs to be rebuilt for 3.03 anyway.
>>
>> There never was any documentation because essentially it acts as a
self-extracting zip file, and does nothing more than unzip the JAR into
either a default, or a directory of the user's choosing.
>>
>> I think on OS X and Linux systems it also tagged the shell scripts as
executable (or I planned to have it do so).
>>
>> If you think documentation is required I will gladly produce some when I
rewrite the v3.03 version.  I would really like to do more than unzip
things, but I wonder if Windows Registry jacking is really necessary.
>>
>> Just let me know what you need.  It's a bit of cake (which are, of
course, famous last words).

>>
>> Tom.
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Ibm-netrexx mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> Online Archive : http://ibm-netrexx.215625.n3.nabble.com/
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ibm-netrexx mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Online Archive : http://ibm-netrexx.215625.n3.nabble.com/
>



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Re: Error: Unable to access jarfile NetRexxF.jar

Kermit Kiser
In reply to this post by rvjansen
I am not so sure that "we have done away with the problem of not finding the compiler" is completely true as yet. I will submit a change request shortly that I hope moves us in that direction.

Regarding "-jar", you have me confused. You point out that the guide mentions it ignores classpath (Which I was aware of but I think it should be bold, bright red, double font-size etc, having been bitten numerous times by it!) but then you say that understanding classpath is a "necessary step". Which way are we leading people? Ignore or understand?

My internet searches show that some products (GlassFish, Confluence, etc) depend on the JAVA_HOME environment variable but I don't think Java itself does. Java (and Ant) seem to locate things based on where they are started from. To some degree we can do that with NetRexx as you can see from the change I am submitting today. Either approach can work, but we need some consistency in installer or installation procedures regardless. I have some ideas to improve things but they will take time to implement and test.

-- Kermit

On 5/31/2014 3:52 AM, René Jansen wrote:
I am not sure we can make this easier without risking breaking things in some environments.

The instructions in read.me.first are, I think, very clear. I see your argument against '-jar' but the text actually states that it unsets the classpath.

"
The NetRexx package includes the NetRexx translator -- a Java
application which can be used for compiling, interpreting, or
syntax-checking NetRexx programs.  The procedure for installation is
briefly as follows (full details are given in the NetRexx Quick Start Guide):

  1. Ensure that you have Java installed and running.
     Try the command: 'java -version' to confirm this. 
     Download and install Java from www.java.com if it does not work.

  2. Create a file named hello.nrx in the directory that contains NetRexxF.jar,
     containing the line:
say 'hello, netrexx world!'

  3. In this directory, verify the working of the interpreter with:
java -jar NetRexxF.jar -exec hello

  4. Verify that you can create a .class file using the compiler with:
java -Dnrx.compiler=ecj -jar NetRexxF.jar hello

This should create the file hello.class, to be executed with the command:
java -cp NetRexxF.jar:. hello

(on windows, the colon (:) should be a semicolon (;) ).

The -jar directive tells the JVM to ignore the set classpath and to
start a method that is indicated in the jar metadata. This method is,
for the NetRexxF.jar: 

        java org.netrexx.process.NetRexxC

Now that you have seen that it works, you can use this method of
execution. Please take into account that you will have to add additional entries
to the -jar argument for all but the most trivial applications.

The NetRexx Quick Start Guide explains about more flexible ways of installing and 
using NetRexx, using the NetRexxC.jar library added to the CLASSPATH variable, 
and using the script (batch) files that are included in this distribution.
"

When people have install problems, I would first ask if they have followed these instructions, because, if this does not work, there might be other, more difficult problems, like rt.jar or classes.jar not found, or invalid (bitness comes to mind) java installations; trying to solve these in NetRexx would be of no use.

Of course I am open to suggestions for better phrasing of the instructions, but with providing ecj we have done away with the problem of not finding the compiler; not finding the translator is a simpler problem to solve. The user guide is faily elaborate already on the subject of ways to make it work. We can experiment with a NETREXX_HOME variable but I am not sure how this differs from having to set CLASSPATH correctly; the latter is a Java/OS skill that is needed fairly early on when trying to make any kind of application that goes beyond 'hello world', at least for the JVM world. I certainly would not want to depend on an environment variable; it would limit deployment scenarios in J2EE containers and other environments. Classpath is not rocket science, but grasping it is a necessary step to understand how the JVM finds classes.

best regards,

René.


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Re: Error: Unable to access jarfile NetRexxF.jar

rvjansen
Kermit,

well, the -jar option ignores the classpath, but we want people to understand what it ignores. They will need it, but later, after they have seen that NetRexx works.

I'm with Fernando here. Never been bitten by it - it does what it says in the manual. I tend to use scripts with -cp myself lately, for easy choice of alternative implementations of the same libraries, if they diverge from what is in my main ~/lib/.

Some products use JAVA_HOME, some JDK_HOME. Environment variables (the calls to retrieve them) were deprecated at one point in time, I am glad they backpedalled on that. I just want to avoid class loader troubles by avoiding them as much as possible.

best regards,

René.

On 31 mei 2014, at 19:48, Kermit Kiser <[hidden email]> wrote:

I am not so sure that "we have done away with the problem of not finding the compiler" is completely true as yet. I will submit a change request shortly that I hope moves us in that direction.

Regarding "-jar", you have me confused. You point out that the guide mentions it ignores classpath (Which I was aware of but I think it should be bold, bright red, double font-size etc, having been bitten numerous times by it!) but then you say that understanding classpath is a "necessary step". Which way are we leading people? Ignore or understand?

My internet searches show that some products (GlassFish, Confluence, etc) depend on the JAVA_HOME environment variable but I don't think Java itself does. Java (and Ant) seem to locate things based on where they are started from. To some degree we can do that with NetRexx as you can see from the change I am submitting today. Either approach can work, but we need some consistency in installer or installation procedures regardless. I have some ideas to improve things but they will take time to implement and test.

-- Kermit

On 5/31/2014 3:52 AM, René Jansen wrote:
I am not sure we can make this easier without risking breaking things in some environments.

The instructions in read.me.first are, I think, very clear. I see your argument against '-jar' but the text actually states that it unsets the classpath.

"
The NetRexx package includes the NetRexx translator -- a Java
application which can be used for compiling, interpreting, or
syntax-checking NetRexx programs.  The procedure for installation is
briefly as follows (full details are given in the NetRexx Quick Start Guide):

  1. Ensure that you have Java installed and running.
     Try the command: 'java -version' to confirm this. 
     Download and install Java from www.java.com if it does not work.

  2. Create a file named hello.nrx in the directory that contains NetRexxF.jar,
     containing the line:
say 'hello, netrexx world!'

  3. In this directory, verify the working of the interpreter with:
java -jar NetRexxF.jar -exec hello

  4. Verify that you can create a .class file using the compiler with:
java -Dnrx.compiler=ecj -jar NetRexxF.jar hello

This should create the file hello.class, to be executed with the command:
java -cp NetRexxF.jar:. hello

(on windows, the colon (:) should be a semicolon (;) ).

The -jar directive tells the JVM to ignore the set classpath and to
start a method that is indicated in the jar metadata. This method is,
for the NetRexxF.jar: 

        java org.netrexx.process.NetRexxC

Now that you have seen that it works, you can use this method of
execution. Please take into account that you will have to add additional entries
to the -jar argument for all but the most trivial applications.

The NetRexx Quick Start Guide explains about more flexible ways of installing and 
using NetRexx, using the NetRexxC.jar library added to the CLASSPATH variable, 
and using the script (batch) files that are included in this distribution.
"

When people have install problems, I would first ask if they have followed these instructions, because, if this does not work, there might be other, more difficult problems, like rt.jar or classes.jar not found, or invalid (bitness comes to mind) java installations; trying to solve these in NetRexx would be of no use.

Of course I am open to suggestions for better phrasing of the instructions, but with providing ecj we have done away with the problem of not finding the compiler; not finding the translator is a simpler problem to solve. The user guide is faily elaborate already on the subject of ways to make it work. We can experiment with a NETREXX_HOME variable but I am not sure how this differs from having to set CLASSPATH correctly; the latter is a Java/OS skill that is needed fairly early on when trying to make any kind of application that goes beyond 'hello world', at least for the JVM world. I certainly would not want to depend on an environment variable; it would limit deployment scenarios in J2EE containers and other environments. Classpath is not rocket science, but grasping it is a necessary step to understand how the JVM finds classes.

best regards,

René.

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Re: Error: Unable to access jarfile NetRexxF.jar

rvjansen
In reply to this post by Bill Fenlason
Bill,

still not sure what you mean by web-based installers. Most installers are an executable file that is downloaded, containing a compressed image. Windows Internet Explorer gives you the option to execute it (which I wish they hadn't). A web-based installer would be a Java Webstart program, or some stub that downloads the rest? We do not want that - it should be usable offline, and Java Webstart is a neverending pain (and needs rights on your system, we do not want that either).

For 3.02, Tom Maynard made an excellent, platform independent installer. With the change Kermit is proposing (to change the default java compiler to ecj), there is a chance that this fixes the remaining problems people have. We do not want to fiddle a lot with people's systems - by the way, "installing NetRexx" is a bit of a misnomer, "adding a jar file to your Java installation" would be a better name for this process.

So, there is no resistance. It's futile. But with ooRexx, my experience is, that there is a category of people that call and say "The installer did not do anything." After I explain that you need a command line, the surprise is immense. Few people introduced to the language by ooRexxTry ever escape it.

I hope Tom will find the time to recreate the installer for 3.03, it will however not solve the problem that people need to know where their runtimes find stuff. With Kermit's newest mod, we are on par with JPython, JRuby, Clojure and others, which require one script to added the path to carry on.

best regards,

René.


On 31 mei 2014, at 19:49, [hidden email] wrote:

> I truly do not understand the continued resistance to developing web based,
> one click installers for each of the three operating systems.  
>
> If you were a new user, isn't that what you would want?  A simple button
> that says "Click here to install NetRexx on Windows"?  (or Mac OS or Linux)
>
> That seems to be the industry standard practice, including for Java itself.
>
> Asking users to take actions out of the ordinary, common, generic
> installation process results in discussions like these, or a "why bother?"
> reaction.
>
>
> Original email:
> -----------------
> From: René Jansen [hidden email]
> Date: Sat, 31 May 2014 12:52:15 +0200
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [Ibm-netrexx] Error: Unable to access jarfile NetRexxF.jar
>
>
> I am not sure we can make this easier without risking breaking things in
> some environments.
>
> The instructions in read.me.first are, I think, very clear. I see your
> argument against '-jar' but the text actually states that it unsets the
> classpath.
>
> "
> The NetRexx package includes the NetRexx translator -- a Java
> application which can be used for compiling, interpreting, or
> syntax-checking NetRexx programs.  The procedure for installation is
> briefly as follows (full details are given in the NetRexx Quick Start
> Guide):
>
>  1. Ensure that you have Java installed and running.
>     Try the command: 'java -version' to confirm this.
>     Download and install Java from www.java.com if it does not work.
>
>  2. Create a file named hello.nrx in the directory that contains
> NetRexxF.jar,
>     containing the line:
> say 'hello, netrexx world!'
>
>  3. In this directory, verify the working of the interpreter with:
> java -jar NetRexxF.jar -exec hello
>
>  4. Verify that you can create a .class file using the compiler with:
> java -Dnrx.compiler=ecj -jar NetRexxF.jar hello
>
> This should create the file hello.class, to be executed with the command:
> java -cp NetRexxF.jar:. hello
>
> (on windows, the colon (:) should be a semicolon (;) ).
>
> The -jar directive tells the JVM to ignore the set classpath and to
> start a method that is indicated in the jar metadata. This method is,
> for the NetRexxF.jar:
>
>        java org.netrexx.process.NetRexxC
>
> Now that you have seen that it works, you can use this method of
> execution. Please take into account that you will have to add additional
> entries
> to the -jar argument for all but the most trivial applications.
>
> The NetRexx Quick Start Guide explains about more flexible ways of
> installing and
> using NetRexx, using the NetRexxC.jar library added to the CLASSPATH
> variable,
> and using the script (batch) files that are included in this distribution.
> "
>
> When people have install problems, I would first ask if they have followed
> these instructions, because, if this does not work, there might be other,
> more difficult problems, like rt.jar or classes.jar not found, or invalid
> (bitness comes to mind) java installations; trying to solve these in
> NetRexx would be of no use.
>
> Of course I am open to suggestions for better phrasing of the instructions,
> but with providing ecj we have done away with the problem of not finding
> the compiler; not finding the translator is a simpler problem to solve. The
> user guide is faily elaborate already on the subject of ways to make it
> work. We can experiment with a NETREXX_HOME variable but I am not sure how
> this differs from having to set CLASSPATH correctly; the latter is a
> Java/OS skill that is needed fairly early on when trying to make any kind
> of application that goes beyond 'hello world', at least for the JVM world.
> I certainly would not want to depend on an environment variable; it would
> limit deployment scenarios in J2EE containers and other environments.
> Classpath is not rocket science, but grasping it is a necessary step to
> understand how the JVM finds classes.
>
> best regards,
>
> René.
>
>
> On 31 mei 2014, at 12:16, Kermit Kiser <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> Not to read over much into your post but are you OK with us doing
> something a bit more sophisticated? It seems to me that the one thing
> absolutely required to eliminate the oft reported problems with finding
> NetRexx components is to have a reliable pointer to the install location.
> That probably needs to be an environment variable (perhaps NETREXX_HOME) to
> be somewhat OS independent. Is that possible? Is there another approach?
>>
>> As for documentation, if you get hit by the proverbial bus can someone
> else handle installer setup? ;-)
>>
>> -- Kermit
>>
>> On 5/30/2014 9:26 PM, Tom Maynard wrote:
>>>
>>> On 30-May-14 16:30, Kermit Kiser wrote:
>>>> There is an installer for NetRexx 3.02...but I can't find any source or
> documentation so I am not sure what it does.
>>> Ahem.  The installer is mine, so if you have questions I'm right here.
> I made the source available to René back when I first produced it, and now
> I've had two crashes and a new computer, so it would be a bit of a scrabble
> to recover it -- I believe I have it on Dropbox, but recreating it would
> not be troublesome, and needs to be rebuilt for 3.03 anyway.
>>>
>>> There never was any documentation because essentially it acts as a
> self-extracting zip file, and does nothing more than unzip the JAR into
> either a default, or a directory of the user's choosing.
>>>
>>> I think on OS X and Linux systems it also tagged the shell scripts as
> executable (or I planned to have it do so).
>>>
>>> If you think documentation is required I will gladly produce some when I
> rewrite the v3.03 version.  I would really like to do more than unzip
> things, but I wonder if Windows Registry jacking is really necessary.
>>>
>>> Just let me know what you need.  It's a bit of cake (which are, of
> course, famous last words).
>>>
>>> Tom.
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Ibm-netrexx mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> Online Archive : http://ibm-netrexx.215625.n3.nabble.com/
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Ibm-netrexx mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> Online Archive : http://ibm-netrexx.215625.n3.nabble.com/
>>
>
>
>
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> mail2web - Check your email from the web at
> http://link.mail2web.com/mail2web
>
>
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Re: Error: Unable to access jarfile NetRexxF.jar

Fernando Cassia-2
On Sat, May 31, 2014 at 4:29 PM, René Jansen <[hidden email]> wrote:
> A web-based installer would be a Java Webstart program, or some stub that downloads the rest? We do not want that - it should be usable offline, and Java Webstart is a neverending pain (and needs rights on your system, we do not want that either).

I´m a big fan of Java Web Start. I wish it was used more.
It´s not really much of a pain FOR THE USER, other than crypto signing
the app (for the developer).

One of my projects, when I get time, would be to do a JWS app that
downloads the latest greatest NetRexx installer, and executes it, over
JWS.

I don´t have much hopes that it´ll become the official one, but it´ll
surely will be a fun way to learn more about NetRexx :o)

FC
--
During times of Universal Deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act
Durante épocas de Engaño Universal, decir la verdad se convierte en un
Acto Revolucionario
- George Orwell

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Re: Error: Unable to access jarfile NetRexxF.jar

ThSITC
In reply to this post by Bill Fenlason
Whil'st I am personally currently *not Yet* in a position to help, at all:

As I did already tell You there:

We shall *again* to behave as&like a KISS:

KISS (as define 25 Years ago ;)

Keep it simple stupid.

Rene, Kermit, and all:

Whilst the Programmers Guide is very helpful ...

... It's the time now, I think, to make things (even in Installation) to
belong even more
to MFC's original design goal:

HUMAN reading and actions ...

I did, as Gil, fight 2 weeks to get newest NetrRess installed at all ...

Aas I am a NetRexx Oldie,

How shouild NewBie's respond ???
Thomas.
================================================================
Am 31.05.2014 19:49, schrieb [hidden email]:

> I truly do not understand the continued resistance to developing web based,
> one click installers for each of the three operating systems.
>
> If you were a new user, isn't that what you would want?  A simple button
> that says "Click here to install NetRexx on Windows"?  (or Mac OS or Linux)
>
> That seems to be the industry standard practice, including for Java itself.
>
> Asking users to take actions out of the ordinary, common, generic
> installation process results in discussions like these, or a "why bother?"
> reaction.
>
>
> Original email:
> -----------------
> From: René Jansen [hidden email]
> Date: Sat, 31 May 2014 12:52:15 +0200
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [Ibm-netrexx] Error: Unable to access jarfile NetRexxF.jar
>
>
> I am not sure we can make this easier without risking breaking things in
> some environments.
>
> The instructions in read.me.first are, I think, very clear. I see your
> argument against '-jar' but the text actually states that it unsets the
> classpath.
>
> "
> The NetRexx package includes the NetRexx translator -- a Java
> application which can be used for compiling, interpreting, or
> syntax-checking NetRexx programs.  The procedure for installation is
> briefly as follows (full details are given in the NetRexx Quick Start
> Guide):
>
>    1. Ensure that you have Java installed and running.
>       Try the command: 'java -version' to confirm this.
>       Download and install Java from www.java.com if it does not work.
>
>    2. Create a file named hello.nrx in the directory that contains
> NetRexxF.jar,
>       containing the line:
> say 'hello, netrexx world!'
>
>    3. In this directory, verify the working of the interpreter with:
> java -jar NetRexxF.jar -exec hello
>
>    4. Verify that you can create a .class file using the compiler with:
> java -Dnrx.compiler=ecj -jar NetRexxF.jar hello
>
> This should create the file hello.class, to be executed with the command:
> java -cp NetRexxF.jar:. hello
>
> (on windows, the colon (:) should be a semicolon (;) ).
>
> The -jar directive tells the JVM to ignore the set classpath and to
> start a method that is indicated in the jar metadata. This method is,
> for the NetRexxF.jar:
>
>          java org.netrexx.process.NetRexxC
>
> Now that you have seen that it works, you can use this method of
> execution. Please take into account that you will have to add additional
> entries
> to the -jar argument for all but the most trivial applications.
>
> The NetRexx Quick Start Guide explains about more flexible ways of
> installing and
> using NetRexx, using the NetRexxC.jar library added to the CLASSPATH
> variable,
> and using the script (batch) files that are included in this distribution.
> "
>
> When people have install problems, I would first ask if they have followed
> these instructions, because, if this does not work, there might be other,
> more difficult problems, like rt.jar or classes.jar not found, or invalid
> (bitness comes to mind) java installations; trying to solve these in
> NetRexx would be of no use.
>
> Of course I am open to suggestions for better phrasing of the instructions,
> but with providing ecj we have done away with the problem of not finding
> the compiler; not finding the translator is a simpler problem to solve. The
> user guide is faily elaborate already on the subject of ways to make it
> work. We can experiment with a NETREXX_HOME variable but I am not sure how
> this differs from having to set CLASSPATH correctly; the latter is a
> Java/OS skill that is needed fairly early on when trying to make any kind
> of application that goes beyond 'hello world', at least for the JVM world.
> I certainly would not want to depend on an environment variable; it would
> limit deployment scenarios in J2EE containers and other environments.
> Classpath is not rocket science, but grasping it is a necessary step to
> understand how the JVM finds classes.
>
> best regards,
>
> René.
>
>  
> On 31 mei 2014, at 12:16, Kermit Kiser <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> Not to read over much into your post but are you OK with us doing
> something a bit more sophisticated? It seems to me that the one thing
> absolutely required to eliminate the oft reported problems with finding
> NetRexx components is to have a reliable pointer to the install location.
> That probably needs to be an environment variable (perhaps NETREXX_HOME) to
> be somewhat OS independent. Is that possible? Is there another approach?
>> As for documentation, if you get hit by the proverbial bus can someone
> else handle installer setup? ;-)
>> -- Kermit
>>
>> On 5/30/2014 9:26 PM, Tom Maynard wrote:
>>> On 30-May-14 16:30, Kermit Kiser wrote:
>>>> There is an installer for NetRexx 3.02...but I can't find any source or
> documentation so I am not sure what it does.
>>> Ahem.  The installer is mine, so if you have questions I'm right here.
> I made the source available to René back when I first produced it, and now
> I've had two crashes and a new computer, so it would be a bit of a scrabble
> to recover it -- I believe I have it on Dropbox, but recreating it would
> not be troublesome, and needs to be rebuilt for 3.03 anyway.
>>> There never was any documentation because essentially it acts as a
> self-extracting zip file, and does nothing more than unzip the JAR into
> either a default, or a directory of the user's choosing.
>>> I think on OS X and Linux systems it also tagged the shell scripts as
> executable (or I planned to have it do so).
>>> If you think documentation is required I will gladly produce some when I
> rewrite the v3.03 version.  I would really like to do more than unzip
> things, but I wonder if Windows Registry jacking is really necessary.
>>> Just let me know what you need.  It's a bit of cake (which are, of
> course, famous last words).
>>> Tom.
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Ibm-netrexx mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> Online Archive : http://ibm-netrexx.215625.n3.nabble.com/
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Ibm-netrexx mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> Online Archive : http://ibm-netrexx.215625.n3.nabble.com/
>>
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
> mail2web - Check your email from the web at
> http://link.mail2web.com/mail2web
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ibm-netrexx mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Online Archive : http://ibm-netrexx.215625.n3.nabble.com/
>

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Re: Error: Unable to access jarfile NetRexxF.jar

ThSITC
In reply to this post by rvjansen
Rene,

did as well follow all the steps mentioned in the new Programmers Guide!

Why, at all, shall be a NewBie been confronted with all the possible
Alternatives?

Shouldn' we simple *advise here* to *one*, and *only one (1)* recommended
sequence of Actions ??

Otherwise, we shall go the Microsoft *Failure* all along ... :-(

Ok ?, *or* Nok* ?
Thomas.


Am 31.05.2014 21:29, schrieb René Jansen:

> Bill,
>
> still not sure what you mean by web-based installers. Most installers are an executable file that is downloaded, containing a compressed image. Windows Internet Explorer gives you the option to execute it (which I wish they hadn't). A web-based installer would be a Java Webstart program, or some stub that downloads the rest? We do not want that - it should be usable offline, and Java Webstart is a neverending pain (and needs rights on your system, we do not want that either).
>
> For 3.02, Tom Maynard made an excellent, platform independent installer. With the change Kermit is proposing (to change the default java compiler to ecj), there is a chance that this fixes the remaining problems people have. We do not want to fiddle a lot with people's systems - by the way, "installing NetRexx" is a bit of a misnomer, "adding a jar file to your Java installation" would be a better name for this process.
>
> So, there is no resistance. It's futile. But with ooRexx, my experience is, that there is a category of people that call and say "The installer did not do anything." After I explain that you need a command line, the surprise is immense. Few people introduced to the language by ooRexxTry ever escape it.
>
> I hope Tom will find the time to recreate the installer for 3.03, it will however not solve the problem that people need to know where their runtimes find stuff. With Kermit's newest mod, we are on par with JPython, JRuby, Clojure and others, which require one script to added the path to carry on.
>
> best regards,
>
> René.
>
>
> On 31 mei 2014, at 19:49, [hidden email] wrote:
>
>> I truly do not understand the continued resistance to developing web based,
>> one click installers for each of the three operating systems.
>>
>> If you were a new user, isn't that what you would want?  A simple button
>> that says "Click here to install NetRexx on Windows"?  (or Mac OS or Linux)
>>
>> That seems to be the industry standard practice, including for Java itself.
>>
>> Asking users to take actions out of the ordinary, common, generic
>> installation process results in discussions like these, or a "why bother?"
>> reaction.
>>
>>
>> Original email:
>> -----------------
>> From: René Jansen [hidden email]
>> Date: Sat, 31 May 2014 12:52:15 +0200
>> To: [hidden email]
>> Subject: Re: [Ibm-netrexx] Error: Unable to access jarfile NetRexxF.jar
>>
>>
>> I am not sure we can make this easier without risking breaking things in
>> some environments.
>>
>> The instructions in read.me.first are, I think, very clear. I see your
>> argument against '-jar' but the text actually states that it unsets the
>> classpath.
>>
>> "
>> The NetRexx package includes the NetRexx translator -- a Java
>> application which can be used for compiling, interpreting, or
>> syntax-checking NetRexx programs.  The procedure for installation is
>> briefly as follows (full details are given in the NetRexx Quick Start
>> Guide):
>>
>>   1. Ensure that you have Java installed and running.
>>      Try the command: 'java -version' to confirm this.
>>      Download and install Java from www.java.com if it does not work.
>>
>>   2. Create a file named hello.nrx in the directory that contains
>> NetRexxF.jar,
>>      containing the line:
>> say 'hello, netrexx world!'
>>
>>   3. In this directory, verify the working of the interpreter with:
>> java -jar NetRexxF.jar -exec hello
>>
>>   4. Verify that you can create a .class file using the compiler with:
>> java -Dnrx.compiler=ecj -jar NetRexxF.jar hello
>>
>> This should create the file hello.class, to be executed with the command:
>> java -cp NetRexxF.jar:. hello
>>
>> (on windows, the colon (:) should be a semicolon (;) ).
>>
>> The -jar directive tells the JVM to ignore the set classpath and to
>> start a method that is indicated in the jar metadata. This method is,
>> for the NetRexxF.jar:
>>
>>         java org.netrexx.process.NetRexxC
>>
>> Now that you have seen that it works, you can use this method of
>> execution. Please take into account that you will have to add additional
>> entries
>> to the -jar argument for all but the most trivial applications.
>>
>> The NetRexx Quick Start Guide explains about more flexible ways of
>> installing and
>> using NetRexx, using the NetRexxC.jar library added to the CLASSPATH
>> variable,
>> and using the script (batch) files that are included in this distribution.
>> "
>>
>> When people have install problems, I would first ask if they have followed
>> these instructions, because, if this does not work, there might be other,
>> more difficult problems, like rt.jar or classes.jar not found, or invalid
>> (bitness comes to mind) java installations; trying to solve these in
>> NetRexx would be of no use.
>>
>> Of course I am open to suggestions for better phrasing of the instructions,
>> but with providing ecj we have done away with the problem of not finding
>> the compiler; not finding the translator is a simpler problem to solve. The
>> user guide is faily elaborate already on the subject of ways to make it
>> work. We can experiment with a NETREXX_HOME variable but I am not sure how
>> this differs from having to set CLASSPATH correctly; the latter is a
>> Java/OS skill that is needed fairly early on when trying to make any kind
>> of application that goes beyond 'hello world', at least for the JVM world.
>> I certainly would not want to depend on an environment variable; it would
>> limit deployment scenarios in J2EE containers and other environments.
>> Classpath is not rocket science, but grasping it is a necessary step to
>> understand how the JVM finds classes.
>>
>> best regards,
>>
>> René.
>>
>>
>> On 31 mei 2014, at 12:16, Kermit Kiser <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>> Not to read over much into your post but are you OK with us doing
>> something a bit more sophisticated? It seems to me that the one thing
>> absolutely required to eliminate the oft reported problems with finding
>> NetRexx components is to have a reliable pointer to the install location.
>> That probably needs to be an environment variable (perhaps NETREXX_HOME) to
>> be somewhat OS independent. Is that possible? Is there another approach?
>>> As for documentation, if you get hit by the proverbial bus can someone
>> else handle installer setup? ;-)
>>> -- Kermit
>>>
>>> On 5/30/2014 9:26 PM, Tom Maynard wrote:
>>>> On 30-May-14 16:30, Kermit Kiser wrote:
>>>>> There is an installer for NetRexx 3.02...but I can't find any source or
>> documentation so I am not sure what it does.
>>>> Ahem.  The installer is mine, so if you have questions I'm right here.
>> I made the source available to René back when I first produced it, and now
>> I've had two crashes and a new computer, so it would be a bit of a scrabble
>> to recover it -- I believe I have it on Dropbox, but recreating it would
>> not be troublesome, and needs to be rebuilt for 3.03 anyway.
>>>> There never was any documentation because essentially it acts as a
>> self-extracting zip file, and does nothing more than unzip the JAR into
>> either a default, or a directory of the user's choosing.
>>>> I think on OS X and Linux systems it also tagged the shell scripts as
>> executable (or I planned to have it do so).
>>>> If you think documentation is required I will gladly produce some when I
>> rewrite the v3.03 version.  I would really like to do more than unzip
>> things, but I wonder if Windows Registry jacking is really necessary.
>>>> Just let me know what you need.  It's a bit of cake (which are, of
>> course, famous last words).
>>>> Tom.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Ibm-netrexx mailing list
>>>> [hidden email]
>>>> Online Archive : http://ibm-netrexx.215625.n3.nabble.com/
>>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Ibm-netrexx mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> Online Archive : http://ibm-netrexx.215625.n3.nabble.com/
>>>
>>
>>
>> --------------------------------------------------------------------
>> mail2web - Check your email from the web at
>> http://link.mail2web.com/mail2web
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Ibm-netrexx mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> Online Archive : http://ibm-netrexx.215625.n3.nabble.com/
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Ibm-netrexx mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Online Archive : http://ibm-netrexx.215625.n3.nabble.com/
>

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Re: Error: Unable to access jarfile NetRexxF.jar

rvjansen
Thomas,

there is not one solution. There is a wide variety of platforms running Java. The read.me.first file has a way to verify that it works; the QuickStart Guide gives what your platform needs.

best regards,

René.

On 1 jun. 2014, at 01:13, Thomas Schneider <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Rene,
>
> did as well follow all the steps mentioned in the new Programmers Guide!
>
> Why, at all, shall be a NewBie been confronted with all the possible Alternatives?
>
> Shouldn' we simple *advise here* to *one*, and *only one (1)* recommended
> sequence of Actions ??
>
> Otherwise, we shall go the Microsoft *Failure* all along ... :-(
>
> Ok ?, *or* Nok* ?
> Thomas.
>
>
> Am 31.05.2014 21:29, schrieb René Jansen:
>> Bill,
>>
>> still not sure what you mean by web-based installers. Most installers are an executable file that is downloaded, containing a compressed image. Windows Internet Explorer gives you the option to execute it (which I wish they hadn't). A web-based installer would be a Java Webstart program, or some stub that downloads the rest? We do not want that - it should be usable offline, and Java Webstart is a neverending pain (and needs rights on your system, we do not want that either).
>>
>> For 3.02, Tom Maynard made an excellent, platform independent installer. With the change Kermit is proposing (to change the default java compiler to ecj), there is a chance that this fixes the remaining problems people have. We do not want to fiddle a lot with people's systems - by the way, "installing NetRexx" is a bit of a misnomer, "adding a jar file to your Java installation" would be a better name for this process.
>>
>> So, there is no resistance. It's futile. But with ooRexx, my experience is, that there is a category of people that call and say "The installer did not do anything." After I explain that you need a command line, the surprise is immense. Few people introduced to the language by ooRexxTry ever escape it.
>>
>> I hope Tom will find the time to recreate the installer for 3.03, it will however not solve the problem that people need to know where their runtimes find stuff. With Kermit's newest mod, we are on par with JPython, JRuby, Clojure and others, which require one script to added the path to carry on.
>>
>> best regards,
>>
>> René.
>>
>>
>> On 31 mei 2014, at 19:49, [hidden email] wrote:
>>
>>> I truly do not understand the continued resistance to developing web based,
>>> one click installers for each of the three operating systems.
>>>
>>> If you were a new user, isn't that what you would want?  A simple button
>>> that says "Click here to install NetRexx on Windows"?  (or Mac OS or Linux)
>>>
>>> That seems to be the industry standard practice, including for Java itself.
>>>
>>> Asking users to take actions out of the ordinary, common, generic
>>> installation process results in discussions like these, or a "why bother?"
>>> reaction.
>>>
>>>
>>> Original email:
>>> -----------------
>>> From: René Jansen [hidden email]
>>> Date: Sat, 31 May 2014 12:52:15 +0200
>>> To: [hidden email]
>>> Subject: Re: [Ibm-netrexx] Error: Unable to access jarfile NetRexxF.jar
>>>
>>>
>>> I am not sure we can make this easier without risking breaking things in
>>> some environments.
>>>
>>> The instructions in read.me.first are, I think, very clear. I see your
>>> argument against '-jar' but the text actually states that it unsets the
>>> classpath.
>>>
>>> "
>>> The NetRexx package includes the NetRexx translator -- a Java
>>> application which can be used for compiling, interpreting, or
>>> syntax-checking NetRexx programs.  The procedure for installation is
>>> briefly as follows (full details are given in the NetRexx Quick Start
>>> Guide):
>>>
>>>  1. Ensure that you have Java installed and running.
>>>     Try the command: 'java -version' to confirm this.
>>>     Download and install Java from www.java.com if it does not work.
>>>
>>>  2. Create a file named hello.nrx in the directory that contains
>>> NetRexxF.jar,
>>>     containing the line:
>>> say 'hello, netrexx world!'
>>>
>>>  3. In this directory, verify the working of the interpreter with:
>>> java -jar NetRexxF.jar -exec hello
>>>
>>>  4. Verify that you can create a .class file using the compiler with:
>>> java -Dnrx.compiler=ecj -jar NetRexxF.jar hello
>>>
>>> This should create the file hello.class, to be executed with the command:
>>> java -cp NetRexxF.jar:. hello
>>>
>>> (on windows, the colon (:) should be a semicolon (;) ).
>>>
>>> The -jar directive tells the JVM to ignore the set classpath and to
>>> start a method that is indicated in the jar metadata. This method is,
>>> for the NetRexxF.jar:
>>>
>>>        java org.netrexx.process.NetRexxC
>>>
>>> Now that you have seen that it works, you can use this method of
>>> execution. Please take into account that you will have to add additional
>>> entries
>>> to the -jar argument for all but the most trivial applications.
>>>
>>> The NetRexx Quick Start Guide explains about more flexible ways of
>>> installing and
>>> using NetRexx, using the NetRexxC.jar library added to the CLASSPATH
>>> variable,
>>> and using the script (batch) files that are included in this distribution.
>>> "
>>>
>>> When people have install problems, I would first ask if they have followed
>>> these instructions, because, if this does not work, there might be other,
>>> more difficult problems, like rt.jar or classes.jar not found, or invalid
>>> (bitness comes to mind) java installations; trying to solve these in
>>> NetRexx would be of no use.
>>>
>>> Of course I am open to suggestions for better phrasing of the instructions,
>>> but with providing ecj we have done away with the problem of not finding
>>> the compiler; not finding the translator is a simpler problem to solve. The
>>> user guide is faily elaborate already on the subject of ways to make it
>>> work. We can experiment with a NETREXX_HOME variable but I am not sure how
>>> this differs from having to set CLASSPATH correctly; the latter is a
>>> Java/OS skill that is needed fairly early on when trying to make any kind
>>> of application that goes beyond 'hello world', at least for the JVM world.
>>> I certainly would not want to depend on an environment variable; it would
>>> limit deployment scenarios in J2EE containers and other environments.
>>> Classpath is not rocket science, but grasping it is a necessary step to
>>> understand how the JVM finds classes.
>>>
>>> best regards,
>>>
>>> René.
>>>
>>>
>>> On 31 mei 2014, at 12:16, Kermit Kiser <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Not to read over much into your post but are you OK with us doing
>>> something a bit more sophisticated? It seems to me that the one thing
>>> absolutely required to eliminate the oft reported problems with finding
>>> NetRexx components is to have a reliable pointer to the install location.
>>> That probably needs to be an environment variable (perhaps NETREXX_HOME) to
>>> be somewhat OS independent. Is that possible? Is there another approach?
>>>> As for documentation, if you get hit by the proverbial bus can someone
>>> else handle installer setup? ;-)
>>>> -- Kermit
>>>>
>>>> On 5/30/2014 9:26 PM, Tom Maynard wrote:
>>>>> On 30-May-14 16:30, Kermit Kiser wrote:
>>>>>> There is an installer for NetRexx 3.02...but I can't find any source or
>>> documentation so I am not sure what it does.
>>>>> Ahem.  The installer is mine, so if you have questions I'm right here.
>>> I made the source available to René back when I first produced it, and now
>>> I've had two crashes and a new computer, so it would be a bit of a scrabble
>>> to recover it -- I believe I have it on Dropbox, but recreating it would
>>> not be troublesome, and needs to be rebuilt for 3.03 anyway.
>>>>> There never was any documentation because essentially it acts as a
>>> self-extracting zip file, and does nothing more than unzip the JAR into
>>> either a default, or a directory of the user's choosing.
>>>>> I think on OS X and Linux systems it also tagged the shell scripts as
>>> executable (or I planned to have it do so).
>>>>> If you think documentation is required I will gladly produce some when I
>>> rewrite the v3.03 version.  I would really like to do more than unzip
>>> things, but I wonder if Windows Registry jacking is really necessary.
>>>>> Just let me know what you need.  It's a bit of cake (which are, of
>>> course, famous last words).
>>>>> Tom.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Ibm-netrexx mailing list
>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>> Online Archive : http://ibm-netrexx.215625.n3.nabble.com/
>>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Ibm-netrexx mailing list
>>>> [hidden email]
>>>> Online Archive : http://ibm-netrexx.215625.n3.nabble.com/
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> mail2web - Check your email from the web at
>>> http://link.mail2web.com/mail2web
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Ibm-netrexx mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> Online Archive : http://ibm-netrexx.215625.n3.nabble.com/
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Ibm-netrexx mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> Online Archive : http://ibm-netrexx.215625.n3.nabble.com/
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ibm-netrexx mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Online Archive : http://ibm-netrexx.215625.n3.nabble.com/
>

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Re: Error: Unable to access jarfile NetRexxF.jar

Tom Maynard
In reply to this post by Bill Fenlason

On 31-May-14 12:49, [hidden email] wrote:
> I truly do not understand the continued resistance to developing web based, one click installers for each of the three operating systems.
I personally have no resistance, continuing or otherwise, Bill. Please
just jump right in and do it.  That's how I got started, and I'll be
more than happy to quit when someone like you takes over.

Show me what you mean.  How hard could it be?

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123