Appending loop control var after "end" keyword

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Appending loop control var after "end" keyword

Duke Normandin
I'm new to NetRexx, and quite enjoying the learning so far!

I'm not "seeing" the purpose of appending "k" to the "end" keyword.
I'm missing a subtlety somewhere. :) Clues please ... TIA

loop k=1 to 10
..
end k

--
Duke

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Re: Appending loop control var after "end" keyword

christel.u.w.pachl christel.u.w.pachl
Maybe only useful for nested loops
Do k
  Do i
      Stmt
End k (ending both Do loops ???
Or just "documentation"
Walter (newbie myself)

-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] Im Auftrag von Duke Normandin
Gesendet: Samstag, 01. Dezember 2012 17:21
An: NetRexx List
Betreff: [Ibm-netrexx] Appending loop control var after "end" keyword

I'm new to NetRexx, and quite enjoying the learning so far!

I'm not "seeing" the purpose of appending "k" to the "end" keyword.
I'm missing a subtlety somewhere. :) Clues please ... TIA

loop k=1 to 10
..
end k

--
Duke

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Re: Appending loop control var after "end" keyword

Mike Cowlishaw
In reply to this post by Duke Normandin
 
> I'm new to NetRexx, and quite enjoying the learning so far!

:-)
 
> I'm not "seeing" the purpose of appending "k" to the "end" keyword.
> I'm missing a subtlety somewhere. :) Clues please ... TIA
>
> loop k=1 to 10
> ..
> end k

This (optional) addition tells the compiler that this is the 'end' that matches
the loop k... instruction.   This is useful because (for example) if you omit an
'end' in the code  in-between the compiler can now tell you that it happened
between that 'loop' and its 'end', rather than saying at the end of the program
"there's a missing end".   Similarly if there is one too many 'end's, the
compiler can give a better message.

Also, in a big loop, seeing "end k" will often remind you what the 'end' ends
without having to scroll or look further up.  This works especially well when
the variable name is more meaningful than 'k'.

Mike





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Re: Appending loop control var after "end" keyword

Dave Woodman
In reply to this post by christel.u.w.pachl christel.u.w.pachl
It comes in handy when you have nested structures - if the label does not
match (try using "end p" instead of "end k") then the compile will fail.
This means that you can be sure that the end statement is matched up
properly.

I sure that all of us, at some time or another, have seen a compiler message
that indicates a missing or extra end - this help you avoid that problem.

         Dave.


-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Walter Pachl
Sent: 01 December 2012 16:28
To: 'IBM Netrexx'
Subject: Re: [Ibm-netrexx] Appending loop control var after "end" keyword

Maybe only useful for nested loops
Do k
  Do i
      Stmt
End k (ending both Do loops ???
Or just "documentation"
Walter (newbie myself)

-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] Im Auftrag von Duke Normandin
Gesendet: Samstag, 01. Dezember 2012 17:21
An: NetRexx List
Betreff: [Ibm-netrexx] Appending loop control var after "end" keyword

I'm new to NetRexx, and quite enjoying the learning so far!

I'm not "seeing" the purpose of appending "k" to the "end" keyword.
I'm missing a subtlety somewhere. :) Clues please ... TIA

loop k=1 to 10
..
end k

--
Duke

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Re: Appending loop control var after "end" keyword

alansam
Along with everything that's been said earlier (and the added benefit of formally documenting the end location of a loop), it also allows more granular control over nested loops.  Consider the following:

Loop n = 1 to 10
  ...
  Loop y = 1 to 10000
    ...
    If i_need_to_quit then leave n
    ....
    End y
    ...
  End n

results in the outer loop being terminated.  Without the label, the leave (or iterate) instruction operates on the inner loop.

Alan.



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Re: Appending loop control var after "end" keyword

Duke Normandin
In reply to this post by Mike Cowlishaw
@Mike
@Dave

Thank you gentlemen!!  for such a clear and concise reply!!

How many times have I forgotten a closing `}' or `)' ? Especially
when I do any amount of Lisp! Ditto with `END.' in Oberon et al ...

This is extra swell that NetRexx provides "heads-up" syntax to help
avoid such situations! Kudos +10 !!

@Walter

Thanks! Now we both know!  LOL ...

--
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Re: Appending loop control var after "end" keyword

Duke Normandin
In reply to this post by alansam
On Sat, 1 Dec 2012 09:25:06 -0800
Alan Sampson <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Along with everything that's been said earlier (and the added
> benefit of formally documenting the end location of a loop), it
> also allows more granular control over nested loops.  Consider
> the following:
>
> Loop n = 1 to 10
>   ...
>   Loop y = 1 to 10000
>     ...
>     If i_need_to_quit then leave n
>     ....
>     End y
>     ...
>   End n
>
> results in the outer loop being terminated.  Without the label,
> the leave (or iterate) instruction operates on the inner loop.

Thanks! I'm liking NetRexx more by the minute!  lol ...

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Re: Appending loop control var after "end" keyword

Bill Fenlason
In reply to this post by Duke Normandin
The NetRexx plugin editor for Eclipse provides immediate error feedback
on missing or extra end statements.

On 12/1/2012 12:34 PM, Duke Normandin wrote:

> @Mike
> @Dave
>
> Thank you gentlemen!!  for such a clear and concise reply!!
>
> How many times have I forgotten a closing `}' or `)' ? Especially
> when I do any amount of Lisp! Ditto with `END.' in Oberon et al ...
>
> This is extra swell that NetRexx provides "heads-up" syntax to help
> avoid such situations! Kudos +10 !!
>
> @Walter
>
> Thanks! Now we both know!  LOL ...
>
> --

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Re: Appending loop control var after "end" keyword

Duke Normandin
On Sat, 01 Dec 2012 12:44:55 -0500
Bill Fenlason <[hidden email]> wrote:

> The NetRexx plugin editor for Eclipse provides immediate error
> feedback on missing or extra end statements.

Have yet to use Eclipse - emacs has been my goto editor.

However - I see on Eclipse's DL page that the beast is available in
customized packages. I'm thinking that the Java-centric package
would be the way to go for hacking NetRexx code. Would you agree,
or does it not matter all that much?

Thanks for the heads-up! I use DrJava when I'm fooling around with
Java. I'll have to see it it offers the same error feedback.

--
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Re: Appending loop control var after "end" keyword

Bill Fenlason
Many programmers do not use or like Eclipse, perhaps because of the high
learning curve or the machine resources it needs.

As far as I am concerned, it is absolutely the best IDE for Java. All
syntax and semantic errors are shown immediately, and it has a very
powerful Java.oriented debugger.

On 12/1/2012 1:06 PM, Duke Normandin wrote:

> On Sat, 01 Dec 2012 12:44:55 -0500
> Bill Fenlason <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> The NetRexx plugin editor for Eclipse provides immediate error
>> feedback on missing or extra end statements.
> Have yet to use Eclipse - emacs has been my goto editor.
>
> However - I see on Eclipse's DL page that the beast is available in
> customized packages. I'm thinking that the Java-centric package
> would be the way to go for hacking NetRexx code. Would you agree,
> or does it not matter all that much?
>
> Thanks for the heads-up! I use DrJava when I'm fooling around with
> Java. I'll have to see it it offers the same error feedback.
>
> --
> Duke
>

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Re: Appending loop control var after "end" keyword

Duke Normandin
On Sat, 01 Dec 2012 13:14:22 -0500
Bill Fenlason <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Many programmers do not use or like Eclipse, perhaps because of
> the high learning curve or the machine resources it needs.
>
> As far as I am concerned, it is absolutely the best IDE for Java.
> All syntax and semantic errors are shown immediately, and it has
> a very powerful Java.oriented debugger.

So to hack NetRexx code, I would use the NetRexx plugin, with one
of these two?

http://www.eclipse.org/downloads/packages/eclipse-ide-java-ee-developers/junosr1
http://www.eclipse.org/downloads/packages/eclipse-ide-java-developers/junosr1


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Re: Appending loop control var after "end" keyword

Bill Fenlason
If you want to go the Eclipse route, use the second one.

But be aware there are other approaches - there is a JEdit plugin for
NetRexx which does syntax coloring, etc.  Perhaps there is even an emacs
colorer for it some where.  Some people use a simple text editor.

Eclipse is a huge, multi-million line beast, with well over a thousand
plugin packages, etc.  I think you can run emacs with it as well.  But
if you are just playing around with NetRexx and are not interested in
investing a lot of time learning Eclipse, you might want to think
twice.  Don't expect to run it on an old laptop.  (I use an overclocked i7.)

You've already invested a lot of time in emacs, but learning Eclipse is
at least comparable or much more work in order to really use it
effectively.  I've used it for years, and there are still things I'm
learning about it.  The whole approach and philosophy is a different
direction from emacs.

Since I wrote the Eclipse NetRexx plugin I'm a little biased, but to be
honest, not many people on this list use Eclipse.  Perhaps other users
can make additional suggestions for you.


On 12/1/2012 1:26 PM, Duke Normandin wrote:

> On Sat, 01 Dec 2012 13:14:22 -0500
> Bill Fenlason <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> Many programmers do not use or like Eclipse, perhaps because of
>> the high learning curve or the machine resources it needs.
>>
>> As far as I am concerned, it is absolutely the best IDE for Java.
>> All syntax and semantic errors are shown immediately, and it has
>> a very powerful Java.oriented debugger.
> So to hack NetRexx code, I would use the NetRexx plugin, with one
> of these two?
>
> http://www.eclipse.org/downloads/packages/eclipse-ide-java-ee-developers/junosr1
> http://www.eclipse.org/downloads/packages/eclipse-ide-java-developers/junosr1

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Re: Appending loop control var after "end" keyword

ThSITC
In reply to this post by christel.u.w.pachl christel.u.w.pachl
Unfortunately, (as far as I know), *only documentation*, at the Minute,
Walter & all ..
Happy weekend,
Thomas.
=================================================================
Am 01.12.2012 17:27, schrieb Walter Pachl:

> Maybe only useful for nested loops
> Do k
>    Do i
>        Stmt
> End k (ending both Do loops ???
> Or just "documentation"
> Walter (newbie myself)
>
> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> Von: [hidden email]
> [mailto:[hidden email]] Im Auftrag von Duke Normandin
> Gesendet: Samstag, 01. Dezember 2012 17:21
> An: NetRexx List
> Betreff: [Ibm-netrexx] Appending loop control var after "end" keyword
>
> I'm new to NetRexx, and quite enjoying the learning so far!
>
> I'm not "seeing" the purpose of appending "k" to the "end" keyword.
> I'm missing a subtlety somewhere. :) Clues please ... TIA
>
> loop k=1 to 10
> ..
> end k
>
> --
> Duke
>
> _______________________________________________
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>
> _______________________________________________
> Ibm-netrexx mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Online Archive : http://ibm-netrexx.215625.n3.nabble.com/
>
>


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Yahoo ID: [hidden email] FaceBook ID: Thomas.Schneider.Wien Member
of the Rexx Languge Asscociation (www.rexxla.org) Member of the NetRexx
Developer's Team (www.netrexx.org)

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Re: Appending loop control var after "end" keyword

Duke Normandin
In reply to this post by Bill Fenlason
On Sat, 01 Dec 2012 14:02:04 -0500
Bill Fenlason <[hidden email]> wrote:

> If you want to go the Eclipse route, use the second one.
>
> But be aware there are other approaches - there is a JEdit plugin
> for NetRexx which does syntax coloring, etc.  Perhaps there is
> even an emacs colorer for it some where.  Some people use a
> simple text editor.
>
> Eclipse is a huge, multi-million line beast, with well over a
> thousand plugin packages, etc.  I think you can run emacs with it
> as well.  But if you are just playing around with NetRexx and are
> not interested in investing a lot of time learning Eclipse, you
> might want to think twice.  Don't expect to run it on an old
> laptop.  (I use an overclocked i7.)
>
> You've already invested a lot of time in emacs, but learning
> Eclipse is at least comparable or much more work in order to
> really use it effectively.  I've used it for years, and there are
> still things I'm learning about it.  The whole approach and
> philosophy is a different direction from emacs.
>
> Since I wrote the Eclipse NetRexx plugin I'm a little biased, but
> to be honest, not many people on this list use Eclipse.  Perhaps
> other users can make additional suggestions for you.

I sure appreciated your candor here, Bill.

To date, I've been inclined to shy away from high-powered IDEs,
e.g. XCode, Lazarus etc , because of their learning curve seems to
always be coupled with that of a language I'm trying to wrap my
head around.  Emacs I know!! lol ...

I have jEdit and use it sporadically, as well as DrJava. I see that
there's a netrexx-mode still kicking around, so I might have to
have a peek at that.

I've got the HP and disk-space on my new ASUS laptop, so I think
that I would be OK there.

I'm much obliged for your input!! Thanks...

--
Duke

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Re: Appending loop control var after "end" keyword

Dave Woodman
I have to admit to using both jEdit and Eclipse, depending on what I am up
to (and what machine I am using).

I can recommend both, but if you are to use jEdit then look back thought the
archive to three weeks or so ago and get the new jEdit plugin mentioned in
posts by Kermit Kiser - Bill has already mentioned his work for Eclipse,
which can be found via the Marketplace.

I am a happy user of both.

        Dave.

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Duke Normandin
Sent: 01 December 2012 19:22
To: IBM Netrexx
Subject: Re: [Ibm-netrexx] Appending loop control var after "end" keyword

On Sat, 01 Dec 2012 14:02:04 -0500
Bill Fenlason <[hidden email]> wrote:

> If you want to go the Eclipse route, use the second one.
>
> But be aware there are other approaches - there is a JEdit plugin for
> NetRexx which does syntax coloring, etc.  Perhaps there is even an
> emacs colorer for it some where.  Some people use a simple text
> editor.
>
> Eclipse is a huge, multi-million line beast, with well over a thousand
> plugin packages, etc.  I think you can run emacs with it as well.  But
> if you are just playing around with NetRexx and are not interested in
> investing a lot of time learning Eclipse, you might want to think
> twice.  Don't expect to run it on an old laptop.  (I use an
> overclocked i7.)
>
> You've already invested a lot of time in emacs, but learning Eclipse
> is at least comparable or much more work in order to really use it
> effectively.  I've used it for years, and there are still things I'm
> learning about it.  The whole approach and philosophy is a different
> direction from emacs.
>
> Since I wrote the Eclipse NetRexx plugin I'm a little biased, but to
> be honest, not many people on this list use Eclipse.  Perhaps other
> users can make additional suggestions for you.

I sure appreciated your candor here, Bill.

To date, I've been inclined to shy away from high-powered IDEs, e.g. XCode,
Lazarus etc , because of their learning curve seems to always be coupled
with that of a language I'm trying to wrap my head around.  Emacs I know!!
lol ...

I have jEdit and use it sporadically, as well as DrJava. I see that there's
a netrexx-mode still kicking around, so I might have to have a peek at that.

I've got the HP and disk-space on my new ASUS laptop, so I think that I
would be OK there.

I'm much obliged for your input!! Thanks...

--
Duke

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Re: Appending loop control var after "end" keyword

Bill Fenlason
In reply to this post by Duke Normandin
On the other hand, if you are doing serious coding in a medium or large
Java project, Eclipse is pretty slick.

The idea is that the entire project is error checked, built and up to
date - all the time (!).  So if you change a method parameter list in
one file, all the places it is referenced in all the other files are
marked as errors.  No "make" or equivalent needed, just click on each
error message to edit the other file at the point of error, etc.

My long range goal was to provide the equivalent for NetRexx and
integrate everything with the Java debugger, but since there is so
little use of NetRexx with Eclipse I'm not putting much effort into it now.

On 12/1/2012 2:22 PM, Duke Normandin wrote:

> On Sat, 01 Dec 2012 14:02:04 -0500
> Bill Fenlason <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> If you want to go the Eclipse route, use the second one.
>>
>> But be aware there are other approaches - there is a JEdit plugin
>> for NetRexx which does syntax coloring, etc.  Perhaps there is
>> even an emacs colorer for it some where.  Some people use a
>> simple text editor.
>>
>> Eclipse is a huge, multi-million line beast, with well over a
>> thousand plugin packages, etc.  I think you can run emacs with it
>> as well.  But if you are just playing around with NetRexx and are
>> not interested in investing a lot of time learning Eclipse, you
>> might want to think twice.  Don't expect to run it on an old
>> laptop.  (I use an overclocked i7.)
>>
>> You've already invested a lot of time in emacs, but learning
>> Eclipse is at least comparable or much more work in order to
>> really use it effectively.  I've used it for years, and there are
>> still things I'm learning about it.  The whole approach and
>> philosophy is a different direction from emacs.
>>
>> Since I wrote the Eclipse NetRexx plugin I'm a little biased, but
>> to be honest, not many people on this list use Eclipse.  Perhaps
>> other users can make additional suggestions for you.
> I sure appreciated your candor here, Bill.
>
> To date, I've been inclined to shy away from high-powered IDEs,
> e.g. XCode, Lazarus etc , because of their learning curve seems to
> always be coupled with that of a language I'm trying to wrap my
> head around.  Emacs I know!! lol ...
>
> I have jEdit and use it sporadically, as well as DrJava. I see that
> there's a netrexx-mode still kicking around, so I might have to
> have a peek at that.
>
> I've got the HP and disk-space on my new ASUS laptop, so I think
> that I would be OK there.
>
> I'm much obliged for your input!! Thanks...
>
> --
> Duke

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Re: Appending loop control var after "end" keyword

Duke Normandin
In reply to this post by Dave Woodman
On Sat, 1 Dec 2012 20:12:59 -0000
"Dave Woodman" <[hidden email]> wrote:


> I can recommend both, but if you are to use jEdit then look back
> thought the archive to three weeks or so ago and get the new
> jEdit plugin mentioned in posts by Kermit Kiser

Thanks for the "heads up!" ...

Looks like it'll be either emacs in netrexx-mode or jEdit (or both)
for me, for the time being. Eclipse will always be there if I ever
need that amount of horsepower! Thanks!!

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Re: Appending loop control var after "end" keyword

Duke Normandin
In reply to this post by Bill Fenlason
On Sat, 01 Dec 2012 15:32:32 -0500
Bill Fenlason <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On the other hand, if you are doing serious coding in a medium or
> large Java project, Eclipse is pretty slick.

I gather that in Pro shops, Eclipse is pretty much standard.

> The idea is that the entire project is error checked, built and
> up to date - all the time (!).  So if you change a method
> parameter list in one file, all the places it is referenced in
> all the other files are marked as errors.  No "make" or
> equivalent needed, just click on each error message to edit the
> other file at the point of error, etc.

If you've got the CPU and "tons" of memory, and love the
point-n-click - sounds like an ideal tool! :)
 
> My long range goal was to provide the equivalent for NetRexx and
> integrate everything with the Java debugger, but since there is
> so little use of NetRexx with Eclipse I'm not putting much effort
> into it now.

If NOT Eclipse, then what are the NetRexx folks using - if I may be
so bold to ask? Just out of curiosity, mind you!! lol ...

--
Duke

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Re: Appending loop control var after "end" keyword

Jason Martin
In reply to this post by Bill Fenlason
If it had not been for Bill's plugin, I probably would not have been very interested in Android.

Bill, definitely want to see you stay interested and add more features and keep it updated for new Eclipse releases.

On Sat, Dec 1, 2012 at 3:32 PM, Bill Fenlason <[hidden email]> wrote:
On the other hand, if you are doing serious coding in a medium or large Java project, Eclipse is pretty slick.

The idea is that the entire project is error checked, built and up to date - all the time (!).  So if you change a method parameter list in one file, all the places it is referenced in all the other files are marked as errors.  No "make" or equivalent needed, just click on each error message to edit the other file at the point of error, etc.

My long range goal was to provide the equivalent for NetRexx and integrate everything with the Java debugger, but since there is so little use of NetRexx with Eclipse I'm not putting much effort into it now.


On 12/1/2012 2:22 PM, Duke Normandin wrote:
On Sat, 01 Dec 2012 14:02:04 -0500
Bill Fenlason <[hidden email]> wrote:

If you want to go the Eclipse route, use the second one.

But be aware there are other approaches - there is a JEdit plugin
for NetRexx which does syntax coloring, etc.  Perhaps there is
even an emacs colorer for it some where.  Some people use a
simple text editor.

Eclipse is a huge, multi-million line beast, with well over a
thousand plugin packages, etc.  I think you can run emacs with it
as well.  But if you are just playing around with NetRexx and are
not interested in investing a lot of time learning Eclipse, you
might want to think twice.  Don't expect to run it on an old
laptop.  (I use an overclocked i7.)

You've already invested a lot of time in emacs, but learning
Eclipse is at least comparable or much more work in order to
really use it effectively.  I've used it for years, and there are
still things I'm learning about it.  The whole approach and
philosophy is a different direction from emacs.

Since I wrote the Eclipse NetRexx plugin I'm a little biased, but
to be honest, not many people on this list use Eclipse.  Perhaps
other users can make additional suggestions for you.
I sure appreciated your candor here, Bill.

To date, I've been inclined to shy away from high-powered IDEs,
e.g. XCode, Lazarus etc , because of their learning curve seems to
always be coupled with that of a language I'm trying to wrap my
head around.  Emacs I know!! lol ...

I have jEdit and use it sporadically, as well as DrJava. I see that
there's a netrexx-mode still kicking around, so I might have to
have a peek at that.

I've got the HP and disk-space on my new ASUS laptop, so I think
that I would be OK there.

I'm much obliged for your input!! Thanks...

--
Duke

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Re: Appending loop control var after "end" keyword

ThSITC
In reply to this post by Duke Normandin
Hello Duke,

may I *recommend*, as an Alternative to Eclipse, *jEdit* (originally
from Slava Pestov) in Combination
with Kermit Kiser's brand new NetRexxPlugin (which does now *combine*
Kermit Kiser's NetRexxScript and David Requena's NetRexxDE) for your
investigation.

You will find *jEDIT* on SOURCEFORGE, and the *NetRexxPlugin* (for
jEDIT) on www.Kenai.com.

Thomas Schneider.
================================================================================
Am 01.12.2012 22:48, schrieb Duke Normandin:

> On Sat, 01 Dec 2012 15:32:32 -0500
> Bill Fenlason <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> On the other hand, if you are doing serious coding in a medium or
>> large Java project, Eclipse is pretty slick.
> I gather that in Pro shops, Eclipse is pretty much standard.
>
>> The idea is that the entire project is error checked, built and
>> up to date - all the time (!).  So if you change a method
>> parameter list in one file, all the places it is referenced in
>> all the other files are marked as errors.  No "make" or
>> equivalent needed, just click on each error message to edit the
>> other file at the point of error, etc.
> If you've got the CPU and "tons" of memory, and love the
> point-n-click - sounds like an ideal tool! :)
>  
>> My long range goal was to provide the equivalent for NetRexx and
>> integrate everything with the Java debugger, but since there is
>> so little use of NetRexx with Eclipse I'm not putting much effort
>> into it now.
> If NOT Eclipse, then what are the NetRexx folks using - if I may be
> so bold to ask? Just out of curiosity, mind you!! lol ...
>
> --
> Duke
>
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>


--
http://www.thsitc.com Austria, Europe Skype ID: Thomas.Schneider.Wien
Yahoo ID: [hidden email] FaceBook ID: Thomas.Schneider.Wien Member
of the Rexx Languge Asscociation (www.rexxla.org) Member of the NetRexx
Developer's Team (www.netrexx.org)

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Thomas Schneider, Vienna, Austria (Europe) :-)

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